Several questions about legality

[stebrick]

Q1. Changing Trainer Name -  If I change my trainer name (OT), do I have to change SID & TID of the trainer info and SID & TID of every pokemon caught by me as well?  Idk what might be synced or stored in nintendo server, though so far I haven't participated in any online battles or trades.

 

Q2.  Wild area event - Is it legal if I just import the wild area events from the github of this site, capture the mon and edit its IVs and shinny myself in pkhex?  I was specifically advised in another thread not to edit any mons stats so captured but I wonder what's the reason behind this? 

 

Q3.  Grabbing pk8 files in open source. -  I editted a few mons conveniently this way more than 1 year ago: directly grabbed pk8 files (whether it's from wild area event or not) from RoG-PC > changed the IVs > Set me as the latest OT name > Change the OT name to something else to make it look like as if it's traded from someone else instead of RoG> Rerolled PID and EC.   

a. Is it legal to do it this way?   

b. Should I change SID & TID of those mons because I'm editing a pk8 files from other people?  I've been repeatedly thinking this lately, I guess I should should have changed SID and TID right? Editing a mon from an open source when everyone can have those mons with the same SID and TID...

c. But then idk how to generate a new and valid SID and TID.  Do I have to start a new game save and look for the new SID and TID, then wipe the new save?  

d. What else should I edit to make it looks like it's a unique pokemon caught by me or traded from someone else in such pk8 file?

[theSLAYER]

10 hours ago, stebrick said:

Q1. Changing Trainer Name -  If I change my trainer name (OT), do I have to change SID & TID of the trainer info and SID & TID of every pokemon caught by me as well?  Idk what might be synced or stored in nintendo server, though so far I haven't participated in any online battles or trades.

Data wise, TID/SID isn't known to be generated based on OT.

10 hours ago, stebrick said:

Q2.  Wild area event - Is it legal if I just import the wild area events from the github of this site, capture the mon and edit its IVs and shinny myself in pkhex? 

It's legal when you catch the mon in the correct area, and leave the caught data unchanged (for the most part).

10 hours ago, stebrick said:

 I was specifically advised in another thread not to edit any mons stats so captured but I wonder what's the reason behind this? 

Long story short, we know how the games calls the EC, PID, IVs, HT, WT sequentially.
These values are all called from the same RNG seed.
While it's presently not implemented into PKHeX, cause the checks for it are not immediate (takes like 30 seconds to a few minutes),
it is possible to be manually checked.
[We basically take those stats, throw it into a program, and see if it returns a seed]

If you edit anything incorrectly, it breaks the correlation, and we can tell it's hacked. [basically at this point, no seed is returned]
(Same thing occurs to mons with PID type overworld8, except it is a lot faster to check, and PKHeX checks for it)

10 hours ago, stebrick said:

Q3.  Grabbing pk8 files in open source. -  I editted a few mons conveniently this way more than 1 year ago: directly grabbed pk8 files (whether it's from wild area event or not) from RoG-PC > changed the IVs > Set me as the latest OT name > Change the OT name to something else to make it look like as if it's traded from someone else instead of RoG> Rerolled PID and EC.   

a. Is it legal to do it this way?   

Yes and no.

If the mon doesn't bear any PID type, then it'll still be legal.
If the mon bears a PID type (like Overworld8 mons), then it won't be legal.

Also, keep in mind that changing any stats, could be legal at the moment, but illegal in the future, which means the edit was never legal to begin with, just that people didn't know.

Case study: editing overworld8 mons were thought to be legal 1 year ago, cause at that point overworld8 was not discovered.

Anyhow, as of now, to be safe, it's fine changing OT/TID/SID, but not everything else.

Overworld8 type details.

(Also, it is RoC, not RoG. ReignOfComputer, not ReighOfGomputer)

10 hours ago, stebrick said:

c. But then idk how to generate a new and valid SID and TID.  Do I have to start a new game save and look for the new SID and TID, then wipe the new save?  

Just write in random numbers. If you're so concerned about it, start a new game, then take the numbers generated by that save.

As of now, there is no known correlation regarding the TID/SID generation.

10 hours ago, stebrick said:

d. What else should I edit to make it looks like it's a unique pokemon caught by me or traded from someone else in such pk8 file?

Catch the Pokémon yourself

In all seriousness, just changing the OT/TID/SID is probably enough.
Without hacking and viewing the data, it's not like people will see the PID/EC pair.

[stebrick]

2 hours ago, theSLAYER said:

Long story short, we know how the games calls the EC, PID, IVs, HT, WT sequentially.

These values are all called from the same RNG seed.

 

Many many thanks for the detailed reply.  I dontt know where to ask apart from here and you are the only person who replied me with all I needed.  Appreciate as always!!

Now I get it.  Probably I should remove those edited pokemons from wild area event since they can be detected as illegal, but presently Pkhex haven't implmented a function to detect them just yet.   Fortunately mons from egg and static encounters (e.g. legendary mons) seem fine to edit for now. 

Some follow-up questions that just came into mind.  You mentioned so far we know "EC, PID, IVs, HT, WT" have corelations.  Is this list exhaustive at this moment? (i know things can change in future  tho, as you rightly pointed out.)  Are nature and ability one of these "RNG seed" things?   Since we have hyper training in gen8 too, can I just edit the IVs (and ONLY IVs) to my liking instead of going thru hyper training?  Or does hyper trainning change the legality differently from just editing IVs in pkhex (if yes, what does it change)?

 

A rather noob question, HT = Height, WT=Weight, right?  And I think every pokemon in gen8 should have a fixed value, instead of fluctating like IVs?  Not sure how they decided to put HT and WT in the corelations.  No wonder some people said Gen8 sucks   I wish I could just skip this gen entirely but then I'm gonna miss a lot of things.

 

And sorry I didn't get "RoC" correctly.  It's a very awesome github that I must respect!

[theSLAYER]

Edit: placed my answer in a spoiler, so that I don't stretch the page.

Spoiler

1 hour ago, stebrick said:

Probably I should remove those edited pokemons from wild area event since they can be detected as illegal, but presently Pkhex haven't implmented a function to detect them just yet.

yup. not just wild area event mons, any mons from raids are affected.

1 hour ago, stebrick said:

Fortunately mons from egg and static encounters (e.g. legendary mons) seem fine to edit for now. 

I think there are some Legendaries that are affected for overworld8 (I think IoA Sword's of Justice?), but PKHeX has overworld8 checks, so it would tell you if so.

1 hour ago, stebrick said:

You mentioned so far we know "EC, PID, IVs, HT, WT" have corelations.  Is this list exhaustive at this moment? (i know things can change in future  tho, as you rightly pointed out.)  Are nature and ability one of these "RNG seed" things?

After the discovery, people have checked what is generated from the RNG seed.

This might seem irrelevant, but for proper context I need to give the story.
It started with the discovery that Overworld encounters are stored in a particular block in the save.
(if you save before an overworld encounter, you cannot soft reset for it; the stats will always be the same when you encounter it. People already knew that it was stored in the save, but didn't know where it was stored.)

So when I found the block, I managed to read the block, and discovered that certain stats are actually not obvious in the block, being EC/PID/IVs/HT/WT, and there was instead just a 32bit value. Then Anubis figured out that was the seed and how to get the appropriate generated values from that seed.

So in the overworld block, the nature and ability was already determined, presumably by a previous RNG call that is independent from overworld8 RNG call.
[Also, given how Nature and Ability was already predetermined and in the block, I see no sense that the seed would roll again to generate those values again]

To be clear, the EC, PID, IVs, HT, and WT being correlated is for overworld8.
Max Raid RNG also has Ability, Gender and Nature as part of the correlations.

The two are similar for the most part, but ultimately raid8 (I'm using that term to denote the RNG) has more details.
So far:
Overworld8 - EC, PID, IVs, HT, WT
Raid8 - EC, PID, IVs, HT, WT, Nature, Ability, Gender
 

For the most part, I think that is all of it, however there is a chance I missed something.
So yeah, that list should be everything, until people discover anything else in the future.

1 hour ago, stebrick said:

A rather noob question, HT = Height, WT=Weight, right?

yup

1 hour ago, stebrick said:

And I think every pokemon in gen8 should have a fixed value, instead of fluctating like IVs? 

Height and Weight as actual stats, were first introduced in Let's Go Pikachu and Eevee.
They fluctuate even then. *I think* the game multiples the value against a base height/weight then displays them in game, but I'm not sure, since I've barely bothered with Height and Weight.

While Height and Weight is not used in SWSH, they still show up in the data. Why it's there, who knows, ask the game devs XD

1 hour ago, stebrick said:

Not sure how they decided to put HT and WT in the corelations.

well, if you don't hack the game, you wouldn't come across this. The correlations mean nothing to a legit player.

1 hour ago, stebrick said:

No wonder some people said Gen8 sucks

Well, those player say Gen8 sucks for a different reason, nothing to do with this.
And frankly, if one were to say the gen sucks due to correlations, then these people are salty as heck.
Correlations exist too in Gen 3 and 4 lol. It just sounds like people being salty over correlations cause they're bad hackers and don't know how to avoid them
 

1 hour ago, stebrick said:

I wish I could just skip this gen entirely but then I'm gonna miss a lot of things.

You could skip over any gen and you won't miss much. That's just how the games works, they always find a way to include older creatures or (at times) an older mechanic into newer games.

 

edit:
Also to be clear the game devs didn't set out with the intention of making the stats correlated.
So far, they don't even seem to implement that kind of detail into their legality checks.

These "correlations" are found by the hacking community that are into legality checks.
Nothing to do with the game devs or the game's generation.

In other words, it appears the game devs don't care about the RNG calls and resulting correlations.
It's the hacking community that cares.

 

[stebrick]

Got it, thank you  

Can you address the IV issue about the hyper training part below?  I appologize for so many questions but IVs is one of my main concerns.  Again, thanks a tons. 

Quote

Since we have hyper training in gen8 too, cant we just edit the IVs (and ONLY IVs) of overworld8 and raid8 to my liking instead of going thru hyper training?  Or does hyper trainning change the legality in a different way from just editing IVs in pkhex (if yes, what does it change)?

 

[theSLAYER]

5 minutes ago, stebrick said:

Got it, thank you  

Can you address the IV issue about the hyper training part below?  I appologize for so many questions but IVs is one of my main concerns.  Again, thanks a tons. 

 

I must have missed it. Also, this response you gave implies you don't understand hyper training works.

Hyper Training doesn't actually change a mon's IVs. It simply sets a flag on the mon, to indicate it went through hyper training.

In PKHeX, it'll appear as a green IV. This can be achieved by Shift + Left Click on that IV.

[stebrick]

2 minutes ago, theSLAYER said:

I must have missed it. Also, this response you gave implies you don't understand hyper training works.

Hyper Training doesn't actually change a mon's IVs. It simply sets a flag on the mon, to indicate it went through hyper training.

In PKHeX, it'll appear as a green IV. This can be achieved by Shift + Left Click on that IV.

Ah ha, a hidden function here.  Yes, clearly I had no idea at all.  Just to clarify, ONLY Shift + Left Click suffices to, in essence, set the flag to indicate a maxed IVs via hyper training, but I MUST leave any numbers inside the IVs boxes unmodified if I want a clean and legal mons of overworld8 and raid8, right?  

Sadly Hyper Training cant lower the original IVs (like 0 IV speed for trick room team).

[theSLAYER]

It's not a hidden function, it's detailed somewhere in the shortcuts.

Yes, don't modify the IVs, and doing the shortcut on the stat would suffice.

Yup, there's no dummy training as of now, so if you want low stat, you have to catch it (or bruteforce the stat)

[stebrick]

I have a few more related questions but dont want to open up 2 separate posts here.  Sorry again for so many questions

Based on the above information kindly given by Slayer, I figure I should catch mons with Leanny's plugin from the wild area events/raids in Emunand first because (a) it can only import limited block at a time, and (b) save-editing and restoring in sysnand is a pain without loading cfw), and then directly drag the same pk8 files from emunand to sysnand's save file in batch without modifying anything that might break the raid8 corelations.

1. Is it safe to use 1 cartridge and 2 same pokemon saves in sysnand (clean) and emunand (dirty with homebrew) at the same time? (not in the sense of launching the game at the same time tho).   In emunand I blocked connections to nintendo server, and the serial number is blank now, but is still necessary to activate the airplane mode when game is launched?

2.  I'm also looking into the option of getting a copy of Pokemon Sword (I had Shield cartridge already) for its raids exclusive events in that particular game.  While I'm still thinking about which region I should get for Sword, I notice that for gen8, the "Region" box in trainer and mons are gone in pkhex (only Language stays) , but loading up a 3DS save or pk7 still gives you those region, sub-region, country details.   Does it mean the region legality doesn't matter in gen8 now?  How about those mons transferred from previous gens into gen8? Does the game just ignore their regions differences in entirety after the conversion in gen8?

[theSLAYER]

12 hours ago, stebrick said:

1. Is it safe to use 1 cartridge and 2 same pokemon saves in sysnand (clean) and emunand (dirty with homebrew) at the same time? (not in the sense of launching the game at the same time tho).   In emunand I blocked connections to nintendo server, and the serial number is blank now, but is still necessary to activate the airplane mode when game is launched?

I don't see what is so unsafe about that..
Either way should generate legal Pokemon, since you're not ROM hacking and changing the way the game generates those Pokemon..

 

12 hours ago, stebrick said:

2.  I'm also looking into the option of getting a copy of Pokemon Sword (I had Shield cartridge already) for its raids exclusive events in that particular game.  While I'm still thinking about which region I should get for Sword, I notice that for gen8, the "Region" box in trainer and mons are gone in pkhex (only Language stays) , but loading up a 3DS save or pk7 still gives you those region, sub-region, country details.   Does it mean the region legality doesn't matter in gen8 now?  How about those mons transferred from previous gens into gen8? Does the game just ignore their regions differences in entirety after the conversion in gen8?

Gen 8 Switch games has no region.

Region legality from Gen 7 in Gen 8 doesn't matter cause that data is wiped.