PKHeX and Pokemon Home

[Reapus]

I'm not sure where else I should have posted this thread, so please move it if necessary.

From what I understand, creating a Pokémon from a different region apart from your own will generally have the name and OT in a different language (Example: Shiny Genesect from Japan/Taiwan event), is there any reason why when loading this particular file from the database it does not get flagged when the region/language is changed? I'd imagine having an English region shiny Genesect or an English named shiny Genesect would be a red flag to a hacked Pokémon.

On top of that, I have transferred a Japan regional Ditto to my Pokémon Sword and Shield game and then into my Pokémon Home. The Japan region label and Japanese name of the Pokémon remained intact despite my Pokémon Home region and language being set to US/English. I bring this up because I have seen someone claim that their shiny Genesect from a different region acquired an English name when transferred into their Pokémon Home due to their regional settings (US/English). This did not happen to me and I have never heard of this happening before, could someone shed some light on whether this is true or not?

EDIT: It's to my understanding that event Pokémon cannot have their names changed as you would a normal Pokémon. So, even doing the SW/SH trick where you create an alternate Switch profile in another language to change the nickname of a regional Pokémon does not work, or rather should not work.

TL;DR: Why is an English named cherish ball shiny Genesect not flagged as illegal in PKHeX? Does Pokémon Home actually change regional names according to your regional/language settings? If so, how?

Edited December 3, 2020 by Reapus

[theSLAYER]

10 hours ago, Reapus said:

From what I understand, creating a Pokémon from a different region apart from your own will generally have the name and OT in a different language (Example: Shiny Genesect from Japan/Taiwan event), is there any reason why when loading this particular file from the database it does not get flagged when the region/language is changed? I'd imagine having an English region shiny Genesect or an English named shiny Genesect would be a red flag to a hacked Pokémon.

To begin with, don't create from scratch, import a wonder card then edit the valid details.

What you mentioned doesn't hold true for all generations, but at least for Gen 5, language for Shiny Genesect HAS to be Japanese, as we know it was only distributed locally, and local distributions for Gen 5 restricts the language that can receive it.
However, PKHeX likely doesn't flag it, because that data isn't on the Wonder card. We know that it was distributed only for Japanese cartridges locally, but that data isn't written on the wonder card, so they can't track it. [Also note: Gen 5 does not have region data on it. Region data was only implemented starting with 3DS era]

Past Gen 6, it can have any region data on it, simply because it can be transferred up on any region 3DS, regardless of the language of cart. Just know the language doesn't change.

 

(Technically, the wonder card itself shows Genesect can have any language and languaged nickname as per the receiving party, but we know it can only be Japanese, as it can only be received by a person with a Japanese language cart. Think of this as metadata; data beyond actual data. We know this in real life, but it's not noted down as data on the wonder card.)

10 hours ago, Reapus said:

On top of that, I have transferred a Japan regional Ditto to my Pokémon Sword and Shield game and then into my Pokémon Home. The Japan region label and Japanese name of the Pokémon remained intact despite my Pokémon Home region and language being set to US/English. I bring this up because I have seen someone claim that their shiny Genesect from a different region acquired an English name when transferred into their Pokémon Home due to their regional settings (US/English). This did not happen to me and I have never heard of this happening before, could someone shed some light on whether this is true or not?

The label has nothing to do with region settings. It's purely for language.
Don't confuse language and region settings, partner.

Name changing: Unlikely. Name changing probably only occurs if it had an illegal nickname, but event mons typically can't be nicknamed by the player, hence it cannot gain an illegal nickname that would result in its name being fixed.

Not to mention if it did have an illegal nickname (who knows how), it would already be fixed in Transporter -> Bank, which that transfer uses the language of the mon itself. So there wouldn't be a chance for it to be fixed in Bank -> HOME.

(FYI, for such a name fix in HOME, would likely match language settings of HOME, not region settings. Region settings practically influence nothing in a Pokemon's data.)

[I reckon the story where you heard the shiny Genesect's name being fixed, belong to a badly hacked shiny Genesect, that was hacked into Gen 6, Gen 7, or Gen 8 (past the Transporter->Bank) stage]

10 hours ago, Reapus said:

TL;DR: Why is an English named cherish ball shiny Genesect not flagged as illegal in PKHeX? Does Pokémon Home actually change regional names according to your regional/language settings? If so, how?

Why not being flagged? already explained.
How does it change names? for events extremely unlikely, but if it does: already explained.

[Reapus]

Thanks again, SLAYER. I appreciate your help. At this point, I think I can count on you to answer questions that bother me for hours.

So, I think it's safe to say definitively, The shiny Genesect SHOULD be in Japanese, but there are no specific checks on the language, so while it's clear to US that there is something wrong with it (Because English), there isn't actually anything wrong with it because it's data that was never there to be tracked to begin with. So, Japanese Genesect just looks more legitimate to those who know of it. English ones are obviously edited in some form or fashion, but still legal.

[theSLAYER]

The other way round. For Gen 5 shiny Genesect, we know the English ones are hacked for sure, and definitely not legal.
(i.e: there's no legitimate way to receive a non-Japanese Gen 5 shiny Genesect)
Ultimately, it is just that specific legality checks for it were not programmed (on PKHeX's end)

It would be a massive undertaking to program language/region info (for some later games; some events are region locked, others aren't) for every event mon. Hence why such things aren't implemented.

It's like how some English characters may appear legal on Gen 3 wild Japanese mons, but they definitely aren't legal cause there's no option to legitimately type them in-game. (Japan Gen 3 uses different English characters)

[Reapus]

What is the likelihood that GameFreak or whoever is in charge of the inner workings of Pokemon eventually creates or updates their current database to find these seemingly illegal Pokemon? Would it even be a possibility to go ahead and put something in place to flag every shiny Genesect with that particilar event PID/(Any other defining data on said Pokemon) that does not match the language/region/data it originally came from? Is this a silly question? I'm looking at things in a perspective of future proofing what you generate. I ask this because I'm wondering when or if they'll take Pokemon generating more seriously so that their GTS isn't a cesspool of hacks which I think is highlighted by the introduction of Pokemon Home.

Edited December 4, 2020 by Reapus

[theSLAYER]

7 minutes ago, Reapus said:

What is the likelihood that GameFreak or whoever is in charge of the inner workings of Pokemon eventually creates or updates their current database to find these seemingly illegal Pokemon? Would it even be a possibility to go ahead and put something in place to flag every shiny Genesect with that particilar PID/(Any other defining data on said Pokemon) that does not match the language of the region it originally came from? Is this a silly question? I'm looking at things in a perspective of future proofing what you generate. I ask this because I'm wondering when they'll take Pokemon generating more seriously so that their GTS isn't a cesspool of hacks.

We don't work for GF/TPCi, so ultimately only they would know.
I guess they won't, simply because it'll require more computing power to run constant checks for every user that deposits a mon into their servers and whatnot, which in a roundabout way translates to more $$ to maintain servers.
But I'm just a nobody in their world. It's not like I really know.

In terms of future proofing, just have no illegal mons, and you'll probably be fine.

In terms of them taking Pokemon generating more seriously so that their GTS isn't a cesspool of hacks, GTS has been around since Gen 4. It's now Gen 8. Granted, while past performance is not indicative of future performance, it's been 4 gens. If each gen is 3 years, it's been 12 years.
In my mind (hint: personal opinion) they only care about selling games, and maybe pushing extra merchandise. It does not fully matter what happens to the game once it's been sold (cause they've already earned the money for it. They'll probably only earn extra money from you by pushing merch, or selling future games). While they do want to maintain legitimacy for their tournaments, GTS isn't a part of that.

[Reapus]

2 hours ago, theSLAYER said:

The label has nothing to do with region settings. It's purely for language.
Don't confuse language and region settings, partner.

This begs one last question. Does this mean generating PK8 files with the language set to JPN does not make the Pokemon a Pokemon from that region since the language label has nothing to do with region and instead just the language set? Example being: A PK8 Ditto with the JPN language enabled. If this does not count it as a Japan region Ditto that makes it viable for the masuda method, how would I go about that if PK8 doesn't seem to have a regional option the same way PK7 (Ultra Moon/Sun) does with 3DS?

[theSLAYER]

1 minute ago, Reapus said:

This begs one last question. Does this mean generating PK8 files with the language set to JPN does not make the Pokemon a Pokemon from that region since the language label has nothing to do with region and instead just the language set? Example being: A PK8 Ditto with the JPN language enabled. If this does not count it as a Japan region Ditto that makes it viable for the masuda method, how would I go about that if PK8 doesn't seem to have a regional option the same way PK7 (Ultra Moon/Sun) does with 3DS?

Masuda method works on language, not region.

[Reapus]

You're the best, Slayer.