Generation III PCJP Eggs

[TonsofPuppies]

Hi, I'm new to these forums and I'm probably asking this in the wrong place, but over the past few weeks, I've really gotten into generating Pokémon via PKHeX. I primarily do this to nab Event Pokémon from the past and/or from different countries. Recently, I've decided to try and compile my own personal database of every Event Pokémon from Generation III and onwards. At the moment, I'm working on the 5th Anniversary Eggs from Pokémon Center (Japan). The issue I'm having is as follows:

For most of the eggs, it's possible to generate a valid PID and IVs using the PokeGen PID Finder. The method is B-A-C-D (R). I can generate these eggs fine, even able to get specific PID/IV combos I desire. When it comes to the shiny Eggs (Pichu specifically) however, I am unable to. B-A-C-D (R) seemingly cannot generate shiny PIDs, which would make sense given it's "restricted" status. I am able to generate shiny PIDs using B-A-C-D (U) just fine. When I import these Pokémon into PKHeX however, I'm given an "invalid PID encounter" error. When I use the Mystery Gift Database from within PKHeX to generate a shiny Pichu, it appears to use a different PID generation method (B-A-C-D_R_S). My question is, what PID method is this? Is it an option within PokeGen or the RNG Reporter? I would like to be able to modify IV spreads and Trainer ID/SID whilst still keeping the Pokémon legal. I simply cannot find any information anywhere on the "B-A-C-D_R_S" PID method. If anyone could give me any information, I would greatly appreciate it. 

Edited November 16, 2017 by TonsofPuppies

[TonsofPuppies]

Damn, too bad. Perhaps you could answer another question for me then:

When you use the MGDB in PKHeX to generate one of the PCJP Eggs, it generates a PID/nature and set of IVs. It's possible to keep rerolling these stats by holding CTRL and clicking on the Pokémon repeatedly. If the method is currently unknown, how is it that PKHeX generates legitimate combinations at will? Is PKHeX simply accepting a more traditional algorithm as "legal" for these events?

[TonsofPuppies]

Damn, it's crazy how complicated Pokemon generation was in Gen III/IV. I believe it was Gen V when they started splitting PID/IV relation so that more combinations were legitimately possible?

Anyway, I really appreciate your in-depth and informative replies on the subject. Something else I've come across whilst researching this topic is quite interesting. If you use PokeGen to generate a B-A-C-D (R) PID, you can quite good nature/IV spreads for the PCJP Eggs and thus create fairly competitive variations of the PCJP Pokemon whilst also keeping them "legal" within the parameters of PKHeX. More interestingly though, if you hold the CTRL button and click the star next to the PID in PKHeX, it will make the Pokemon shiny and still keep it legal. It also retains the same PID and TID, simply changing your SID number to make the Pokemon shiny. This means that fairly competitive AND shiny PCJP Eggs also show up as "legal" within the parameters of PKHeX. If I'm not mistaken, this can be done with all of the Eggs, not just Pichu either. It seems that PKHeX doesn't differentiate between the BACD_R and BACD_R_S methods, as the shiny Pokemon should be BACD_R_S, but using the method I described above sets them to BACD_R and yet, they still retain their legality.

[TonsofPuppies]

1 hour ago, ajxpk said:

Really? Sounds fishy to me, I don't really understand what's going on here, this should not be the case.

Yeah, I found it very strange as well. Perhaps Kap could shed some light on it? Even when leaving the MGDB Pichu unhatched, you can still change to a "legal" shiny by merely holding the CTRL key and clicking the shiny button (thus changing the SID).

1 hour ago, ajxpk said:

Anything you generate with PokeGen is wrong, especially if its a BACD (R) from PokeGen.
Everything you can find with PokeGen using the BACD (R) PID Search is wrong.

Do you mean that it's wrong specifically for THIS event or do you mean that it's a bogus PID generation method for ALL events? It seems that there are several Event Pokemon within the MGDB that use the BACD_R method, so I'm just curious.

1 hour ago, ajxpk said:

This means these two Events include a whole different variety of PID and IV spreads.

When you say TWO events, which two are you referring to? PCJP Eggs and something else, or do you just mean shiny and non-shiny eggs?

EDIT:
I had another question, but I found the answer myself so I've removed it.

Edited November 16, 2017 by TonsofPuppies

[Sabresite]

@TonsofPuppies, TLDR, PKHex does not detect PCJP 2003 (5th anniv) eggs properly.  Here is a link to all of the public ones that are legal (probably legitly acquired back in 2003):

Legal 5th Anniv Eggs

While it is possible to create a method to generate the eggs, we find no reason to make this method public or easily available for several reasons:
1) It encourages selling on ebay and etsy, and scamming via trade channels, both of which we do not condone.
2) There aren't that many good IV spreads, and none of these old events make good competitive pokemon anyways.
3) We have so many of them in our collection, that you can just use one of those.

As for academic research and people interested in reverse engineering, the thread @ajxpk linked to has enough info.  You can also contact me for help if stuck.

[TonsofPuppies]

Hey man, you guys are awesome. I find learning all of this stuff extremely interesting. I greatly appreciate all of your patience and your thorough explanations and apologize for asking so many questions. I've still got a lot to learn about this stuff, but I am looking forward to it. Perhaps you guys could answer something else for me. When it comes to PID generation methods, which do you recommend I use for the most accurate results; PokeGen or the RNG Reporter? Also, is there a conversion chart or forum post you guys can link me to? For example, I believe (please correct me if I'm wrong) that A-B-D-E in PokeGen is equivalent to method H-2 in the RNG Reporter. Where could I find out the other "conversions"?

[TonsofPuppies]

I know I am new here and you guys have no reason to believe me, but I'm not interested in duplicating, trading or selling hacked Pokemon. I'm merely a collector and wants obscure things for my own personal collection. If my emphasis on competitiveness/IV spreads was off-putting, I understand. Of course, I want the best spreads possible in any given situation, but for these older events, having access to them in any capacity, good IV spreads or not, is fantastic. So again, I thank you for all of the information and links. I'm actually going to add all of those Eggs to my collection instead of using the ones generated by PKHeX.

On an unrelated note, the Shiny Berry Fix Zigzagoon, it appears to use the same PID generation method as the PCJP Eggs - therefore, it's impossible to recreate "legitimately". The archive of 145 or so on GitHub - are those all of the legitimate possible combinations that we know of? Very cool that someone was able to accumulate all of them, if so.

Edited November 18, 2017 by TonsofPuppies

[Sabresite]

If I remember correctly, the seeding for berry glitch is broken (big surprise). The seeds are literally between 3 and 180 (inclusively).

[TonsofPuppies]

Thanks again for all of the information. Very informative. I have just a couple of more questions, then I promise I'll leave you guys alone...

Firstly, you mentioned how the Shiny Pichu could end up hatching as non-shiny if traded to another player with a different TID/SID combo (ironically, I didn't even know trading eggs was a thing until I started researching this topic). Is it also possible for the reverse to happen? For example, if you traded a Wish Bagon to another player, could that Bagon hatch as a shiny, or is it's predetermined PID shiny locked?

Secondly, what other events from Generation III (or beyond) have very complicated algorithms involved in which case it would just be best for me to download whatever legit ones are listed publicly?