Ithiliond Posted September 12, 2009 Posted September 12, 2009 (edited) Hi there, recently i was thinking about an insane team, but i need some advice since i'm quite new to pokemon team building. Any advice will be appreciated. The team gives the best while a Hail is on the field. Reveal hidden contents Abomasnow Item: Leftovers Nature: Calm Ability: Snow Warning EVs: 120 HP; 120 Def; 110 SAtk; 120 SDef Role: Drainer Moves: - Leech Seed - Gigadrain - Rest / ?? - Sleep Talk / ?? Obviously this one is needed for the ever lasting hail effect, and since he can learn leech seed (by breeding), i thaught he could be a good drainer. Anyway i'm not sure that Rest/ST is a good choice for this one... Glaceon Item: Bright Powder Nature: Modest Ability: Snow Cloak EVs: 100 HP; 100 Def; 100 Spd; 110 SAtk; 100 SDef Role: Special Sweeper Moves: - Blizzard - Water Pulse - Double Team - Wish / ?? I know is not the classic special sweeper, but i think it can work. With his average def and SpDef glaceon can hope to resist to the strongest attacks, moreover glaceon starts with 30% evasion (that can be increased by Double Team) thanks to Bright Powder and Snow Cloak; this makes him hard to defeat. Let's consider his moves. Blizzard cannot fail in Hailstorm, Water Pulse is the best special water-type move that glaceon can learn, and is good against fire and ground type. I'm not sure Wish is a good choice, but is a good move and glaceon is the only one in the party that can learn it. Mamoswine Item: Bright Powder Nature: Adamant Ability: Snow Cloak EVs: 100 HP; 160 Atk; 120 Def; 130 SDef Role: Physical Sweeper Moves: - Avalanche - Earthquake - Superpower - Hail / Double Team As for glaceon, mamoswine is a bit more defensive than a classic physical sweeper. By the way i'm quite convinced that is a good choice, i only have doubts about the last move; hail can be a good choice in case the opponent has used haze/sunnyday/etc and Abomasnow is dead, otherwise Double Team can improve evasion, but mamoswine lack on Def and SpDef. Froslass Item: Bright Powder Nature: Timid Ability: Snow Cloak EVs: 120 HP; 120 Def; Speed 150, 120 SDef Role: Toxic Trapper Moves: - Block - Toxic - Double Team - Spikes / ?? Nothing particular for this one. Good immunities, good speed and high evasion. I'm not sure for her last move, Spikes, which can be useful while watching the enemy missing any hit on you, but Froslass lacks on healing, and she probably need it. Walrein Item: Leftovers Nature: Calm/Bold Ability: Ice Body EVs: 190 HP; 160 Def; 160 SDef Role: Tank Moves: - Surf - Rest - Sleep Talk / ?? - Stockpile / ?? High HP with Leftovers and Ice Body is cool. I'm not sure about the moves, maybe swallow can be a good choice but it reset stockpile effects. Weavile Item: Scope Lens Nature: Adamant Ability: Pressure EVs: 90 HP; 140 Atk, 80 Def; 120 Spd; 80 SDef Role: Physical Sweeper Moves: - Brick Break - Giga Impact - Ice Punch - Night Slash Good pokemon, average-strong moves. Seems good to me. This team has a choiche for every ice weeknes. Surely is not so solid, but i think it works fine. P.S. I'm sorry for possible grammatical or syntactical mistakes. Any advice in this way too will be appreciated :smile: Edited September 14, 2009 by Ithiliond
Milo Posted September 12, 2009 Posted September 12, 2009 I don't really have the time for a full review right now (might print out the team and write one up tomorrow or something), but I can tell you a couple things right now: you're going to have some serious issues with scizor and anything that can carry a fighting-type move. Infernape also comes to mind. Those are two of the biggest threats out there and either one could single-handedly defeat your entire team. Scizor: Bullet punch will deal massive damage to Abomasnow, Glaceon, Mamoswine, Froslass, and Weavile (while carrying priority), and superpower or brick break will do the same to walrein. Those two moves are very common on scizor (specifically the choice band set) and will leave your team wishing it hadn't been so icy. Infernape: Traditional mixnape might be stoppable, but it can also deal heavy damage to anything on your team. NP fire blast should take out abomasnow, weavile, froslass, glaceon and mamoswine with no problems, while close combat will do the same to abomasnow, weavile, glaceon, mamoswine and walrein. Don't be afraid to mix some types up to help eliminate weaknesses to attacking types, as you face a huge disadvantage against four different attacking types that I can think of off the top of my head: fire, rock, steel, and fighting.
Gin Posted September 12, 2009 Posted September 12, 2009 Well, Double Team is banned with evasion clause, and with wallrein, go traditional stallrein.
wraith89 Posted September 12, 2009 Posted September 12, 2009 (edited) A common misconception to hail teams: they must all be Ice types. Well, no, they shouldn't. In fact, you can use stuff like Blissey or Skarmory in a hail team as well. Just because something isn't immune to hail doesn't mean it can't go in a hail team. To make an effective hail team, get three Pokemon that benefit from hail and take advantage of it while the other three supports you so that they cover your weaknesses. Scizor getting to you? Try the Oven Rotom or Gyarados. Zapdos being mean? Gliscor and Swampert can take care of that. Feel like your HP is going down very quickly? Get a Wishpasser like Blissey or Glaceon or Vaporeon. Also your EVs don't seem to be geared properly. If you are going to use Walrein, get its HP up to 416 (it can hit that you know). I don't have much time right now, but I will come back later and probably help fix this. And most hail teams, largely due to its Ice majority, hate Scizor and Zapdos (the two Pokemon I do not like, coincidentally, mostly the latter). That is why you get something to deal with them. Like... adding Swampert could help (I use one in my hail team myself). Already you have something to deal with Ice's apparent Fire/Rock/Steel weakness. Since Swampert can only take so much hits without a recovery move, something like Wish can help it stay healthy. As for the Fighting weakness, get something like a Tentacruel or a Rotom or something. Do not be afraid of having a Pokemon that isn't immune to Hail. It can help for the most part. Weavile... with Giga Impact? o_o Learning something like Ice Shard as a Sneasel could have helped it a great deal. I suppose you can try to revenge kill Infernapes with a Choice Band Aerial Ace... but beware of Priority moves. As for your EVs... what are their reasoning? If you want a durable Glaceon with Wish, you can opt for a Calm Natured version with 252 HP/40 Def/216 SpDef. Since Glaceon doesn't have tremendous HP, max HP is beneficial for it while 216 SpDef with Positive nature on SpDef survives even a Blaziken's Fire Blast while Close Combat Hitmontop or something will not OHKO with that slight defense investment (40 was really just leftover EVs). Otherwise, just go straight out 252 HP/252 SpA/4 Speed Modest Glaceon to maximize its scary 130 SpA. Also, most people will not allow Double Team when you battle them. Snow Cloak + Brightpowder still gives them hell anyways. Edited September 13, 2009 by wraith89
memjee Posted September 12, 2009 Posted September 12, 2009 Ok... Hail Team, they can be very effective, you have some of the right pokemon, need to put on the right items and moves. You said your new to this so I'll help what I can The best hail team is stall hail team. Abomasnow Always required to snow teams yes, don't make it a sleep talker, if you have leech seed, might as well give it substitute to make it a subseeder. And equiping it with blizzard is a must. Giga drain is alright, protect or focus punch would be more viable, subseed hail gradual damage Glaceon Personally I see glaceon as limited, and woudn't recomend using it. But if you insist theres better movesets, I like your creatity with the set but that will be too unrealiable, and double team is banned from competitive play, unless your just playing with your freinds. I would play on it's other strengths Glaceon can attract defensive walls quickly with it's massive special attack, fake tears can break walls with the most ease, ruining pokemon like blissey's fun. Wish is a solid choice is you want fake tears, hidden power would improve your coverage Or you can run a specs set Hidden Power Fighting, Shadow ball, Blizzard Personally I would replace this with tentacruel equiped with toxic spikes Mamoswine Your set looks pretty good, though ice shard or blizzard instead of avalance is the superior choice, as it is a priority attack that can rid you of a salamence, garchomp, dragonite, flygon, and altaria (if you ever see one) without any worries. And Blizzard never misses and does 120 damage going first or last Hail? Double Team? It's an offensive pokemon so give it another attack, stone edge? Froslass Sorry to say but your froslass won't help you much with that moveset, it has a huge helpful move pool, why don't you use it? Bright Powder can work for frolass, as a possible evasion can greatly help this fragile pokemon The toxic is a great choice though, in a stall, Blizzard always, destiny bond, might rid you a pokmeon your struggling with Toxic Spikes is better if you decide you don't want tentacruel, Spikes is viable though, or thunder-wave, that gets rid of glaceon and mamoswines speed problem. The main role of froslass is a rapid spin blocker, don't forget. Walrein Ahh the stable of Hail Stall Teams, though the moveset you listed isn't bad, it isn't what makes walrein so useful in a hail stall team Use this moveset - Protect - Substitute - Toxic - Surf/Blizzard With the combination of protect, sub and ice body, this enables you to sub a load of times, toxic spikes can poison them without worry unless they are flying or leviating, toxic solves this Weaville Great pokemon, your not using what makes it so great. Pursuit, this makes it a deadly revenge killer, ice shard as I explained already, Brick Break yep, night slash/ice punch to end it like wraith said, not everything has to be a ice pokemon, blissey, swampert, bulky ghost pokemon, tentacruel***, starmie, bronzong, vapoureon, dugtrio, theres many pick a choose which fits Hope this helps and good luck
Ithiliond Posted September 13, 2009 Author Posted September 13, 2009 Ok, i'm convinced. I think i'll keep Abomasnow, Glaceon and Walrein for sure, but since this is my first team build i'll need some further advice, in particular for the roles :redface: For the other three, i think Swampert has good resistances/immunities, while tentacruel can be really good too, but i'm really confused about which role they should have; Weavile is still a good choice, i think, considering your hints ^.- Finally, i'm really appreciating Wraith's "calm" version of Glaceon, but since it's my only special sweeper i'm not convinced about it.
memjee Posted September 13, 2009 Posted September 13, 2009 Swampert (Mixed Tank) - The reason why it's good on hail teams because it resists fire, rock and steel. Weaknesses of ice pokmeon. It's also very good at setting up Stealth Rock Tentacruel (Spiker Special Wall) - A special wall, and a pokemon anyone should consider when making a stall team. Toxic Spikes is a must in hail stall and he's one of the most reliable toxic spikers out there. It can also rapid Spin Froslass (Rapid Spin Blocker) - Forgot about this little timbit, with hail and brightpowder your oppenent will miss 1 out of 5 times. You Can abuse this with it's speed and Substitute, Keep subbing till you have a miss. Then Enjoy your free move. You wanted to know the roles Abomasnow - Hail Setup Glaceon - Special Sweeper or Special Tank Mamoswine - Physical Sweeper Weaville - Revenge Killer, Physical Sweeper Walrein - Staller Ok this is to showcase why walrein is so useful, I came up agaisnt a hail stall, (though I won) it shows how great walrein can stall MMONTERO switched in Walrein (lvl 100 Walrein ?). Pointed stones dug into Walrein. Walrein lost 25% of its health. Walrein used Protect. Walrein protected itself! Heracross used Megahorn. Walrein protected itself! The hail continues to fall. Heracross is pelted by hail! Heracross lost 6% of its health. Walrein absorbed the hail! Walrein restored 6% of its health. Heracross is hurt by poison! Heracross lost 4% of its health. memjeee's Heracross fainted. Walrein's leftovers restored its health a little! Walrein restored 6% of its health. --- memjeee switched in Jirachi (lvl 100 Jirachi). Pointed stones dug into Jirachi. Jirachi lost 6% of its health. Jirachi used U-turn. Walrein lost 13% of its health. memjeee switched in Starmie (lvl 100 Starmie). Pointed stones dug into Starmie. Starmie lost 12% of its health. Starmie was poisoned! Starmie was poisoned by the Toxic Spikes! Walrein used Substitute. Walrein lost 25% of its health. Walrein made a substitute! The hail continues to fall. Starmie is pelted by hail! Starmie lost 6% of its health. Walrein absorbed the hail! Walrein restored 6% of its health. Starmie's leftovers restored its health a little! Starmie restored 6% of its health. Starmie is hurt by poison! Starmie lost 12% of its health. Walrein's leftovers restored its health a little! Walrein restored 6% of its health. --- Walrein used Protect. Walrein protected itself! Starmie used Thunderbolt. Walrein protected itself! The hail continues to fall. Starmie is pelted by hail! Starmie lost 6% of its health. Walrein absorbed the hail! Walrein restored 6% of its health. Starmie's leftovers restored its health a little! Starmie restored 6% of its health. Starmie is hurt by poison! Starmie lost 12% of its health. Walrein's leftovers restored its health a little! Walrein restored 6% of its health. --- Starmie used Thunderbolt. It's super effective! The substitute took damage for Walrein! Walrein's substitute faded! Walrein used Substitute. Walrein lost 25% of its health. Walrein made a substitute! The hail continues to fall. Starmie is pelted by hail! Starmie lost 6% of its health. Walrein absorbed the hail! Walrein restored 6% of its health. Starmie's leftovers restored its health a little! Starmie restored 6% of its health. Starmie is hurt by poison! Starmie lost 12% of its health. Walrein's leftovers restored its health a little! Walrein restored 6% of its health. --- Walrein used Protect. Walrein protected itself! Starmie used Recover. Starmie restored 50% of its health. The hail continues to fall. Starmie is pelted by hail! Starmie lost 6% of its health. Walrein absorbed the hail! Walrein restored 6% of its health. Starmie's leftovers restored its health a little! Starmie restored 6% of its health. Starmie is hurt by poison! Starmie lost 12% of its health. Walrein's leftovers restored its health a little! Walrein restored 6% of its health. --- Starmie used Thunderbolt. It's super effective! The substitute took damage for Walrein! Walrein's substitute faded! Walrein used Substitute. Walrein lost 25% of its health. Walrein made a substitute! The hail continues to fall. Starmie is pelted by hail! Starmie lost 6% of its health. Walrein absorbed the hail! Walrein restored 6% of its health. Starmie's leftovers restored its health a little! Starmie restored 6% of its health. Starmie is hurt by poison! Starmie lost 12% of its health. Walrein's leftovers restored its health a little! Walrein restored 6% of its health. --- Walrein used Protect. Walrein protected itself! Starmie used Thunderbolt. Walrein protected itself! The hail continues to fall. Starmie is pelted by hail! Starmie lost 6% of its health. Walrein absorbed the hail! Walrein restored 6% of its health. Starmie's leftovers restored its health a little! Starmie restored 6% of its health. Starmie is hurt by poison! Starmie lost 12% of its health. Walrein's leftovers restored its health a little! Walrein restored 6% of its health. --- Starmie used Recover. Starmie restored 48% of its health. Walrein used Roar. memjeee switched in Metagross (lvl 100 Metagross). Pointed stones dug into Metagross. Metagross lost 6% of its health. The hail continues to fall. Walrein absorbed the hail! Walrein restored 6% of its health. Metagross is pelted by hail! Metagross lost 6% of its health. Walrein's leftovers restored its health a little! Walrein restored 6% of its health. Metagross's leftovers restored its health a little! Metagross restored 6% of its health. --- Walrein used Protect. Walrein protected itself! Metagross used Meteor Mash. Walrein protected itself! The hail continues to fall. Walrein absorbed the hail! Walrein restored 6% of its health. Metagross is pelted by hail! Metagross lost 6% of its health. Walrein's leftovers restored its health a little! Walrein restored 6% of its health. Metagross's leftovers restored its health a little! Metagross restored 6% of its health. --- Walrein used Substitute. But it failed! Metagross used Meteor Mash. A critical hit! The substitute took damage for Walrein! Walrein's substitute faded! The hail continues to fall. Walrein absorbed the hail! Walrein restored 1% of its health. Metagross is pelted by hail! Metagross lost 6% of its health. Metagross's leftovers restored its health a little! Metagross restored 6% of its health. --- Metagross used Explosion. A critical hit! Walrein lost 100% of its health. MMONTERO's Walrein fainted. memjeee's Metagross fainted. The hail continues to fall.
Ithiliond Posted September 13, 2009 Author Posted September 13, 2009 (edited) Ok here's some change: Reveal hidden contents Abomasnow Item: Leftovers Nature: Calm Ability: Snow Warning EVs: 192 HP; 124 Def; 192 SDef Role: Sub-drainer Moves: - Leech Seed - Gigadrain - Blizzard - Substitute Maybe i'll change nature to Bald and EV's... Glaceon Item: Bright Powder Nature: Calm Ability: Snow Cloak EVs: 252 HP; 40 Def; 216 SDef Role: Special Sweeper/Tank Moves: - Blizzard - Fake Tears - Hidden Power (Fight) - Wish Still have a lot SpAtk, can work well. Not sure about Hidden Power. Walrein Item: Leftovers Nature: Calm Ability: Ice Body EVs: 252 HP; 124 Def; 128 SDef Role: Tank (staller) Moves: - Surf - Protect - Substitute - Toxic / Stockpile I prefer Surf to Blizzard since it has more PP, is effective against all the ice-weakness, and still get STAB bonus. As for abomasnow, i can change nature to Bold. Weavile Item: Scope Lens Nature: Adamant Ability: Pressure EVs: 4 HP; 252 Atk; 252 Spd; Role: Physical Sweeper Moves: - Brick Break - Pursuit / Aerial Ace - Ice Punch / Ice Shard - Night Slash Swampert Item: ? Nature: Adamant/Calm/Bold Ability: Torrent EVs: ? Role: Mixed Tank Moves: - Stealth Rock - Dive / ? - ? - ? Tentacruel Item: ? Nature: Calm Ability: Liquid Ooze EVs: 216 HP; 40 Def; 252 SpDef Role: Special Wall Moves: - Toxic Spikes - Rapid Spin - ? - ? Still need help :redface: , and i think there's too much tanks in this team... Edited September 14, 2009 by Ithiliond
wraith89 Posted September 13, 2009 Posted September 13, 2009 (edited) Need instructions on how to use that evil Walrein? Here is a warstory on how I used Walrein to destroy 5 Pokemon by simply outstalling them. http://projectpokemon.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1324 However, remember that it requires a lot of support to pull it off, such as Toxic Spikes. For your Abomasnow, replace Giga Drain with Protect or Grass Knot. Grass Knot whacks stuff like Hippowdon or Tyranitar if they switch in and change the weather while Protect can help scout for moves and provide extra healing if you have it Glaceon, though, probably shouldn't be using that Calm version set (I only suggested it as a novelty, but it actually works in UU... and destroys stuff like Raikou without Resttalk quite easily) =P If you want a good Wishpasser, look no further than Clefable or Blissey or Vaporeon or something. Glaceon has good defenses, but bad defensive typing and low HP, which shouldn't be used. Glaceon should probably be sweeping because once it is in, no one wants to take in a STAB Blizzard in the face (252 HP/252 SpA/6 Speed Modest will do). The Calm version, if you wish to use it, uses Wish/Protect/Roar/Blizzard. Wish + Protect gives you a free 50% recovery set (albeit using up 2 turns) while Roar phazes out stuff and Blizzard is there for STAB. If you do not need phazing, replace Roar with something like Shadow Ball or Hidden Power Fighting or something. Also, you shouldn't be running 252 HP EVs on Walrein. I'll explain below on why. Here is my hail team that I have been using for quite a while if you wanted to know an example (it was also my first team ^^). I hope you can learn something from it...: Reveal hidden contents Team Fimbulvetr The object of my team: To stall out opponents with Hail and entry hazards while still doing enough damage to keep them on their toes Other notes: All sets/Pokemon/color of my T-shirt is subject to change at anytime [sprite]260[/sprite] Kip the Swampert@Leftovers/Rindo Berry Relaxed EVs (assuming 31 everywhere because I use this in Shoddy): 200 HP/228 Def/80 SpA (or sometimes 240 HP/216 Def/52 SpA) - Stealth Rock - Ice Beam/Protect - Earthquake - Hydro Pump/Roar/Surf Yeah I use Swampert as a lead because common leads like Metagross/Heatran/Weavile/Infernape/Aerodactyl fall to it. Unlike Aerodactyl it can actually survive and come back later to take down stuff like Tyranitar and tank physical hits from dragons and hit back with Ice Beam. Stealth Rock is the best move in game, so I might as well use it. Swampert really helps this hail team a lot. To keep the opponents guessing, I almost never use the same Swampert twice in a row, changing my movesets as indicated. Swampert really doesn't need Attack EVs because EQ still OHKOs stuff like Lucario and Infernape anyways. [sprite]460[/sprite] Fimbulvetr the Abomasnow@Leftovers Timid EVs: 252 HP/6 Def/252 Speed or 6 Def/252 SpA/252 Speed - Leech Seed - Substitute - Blizzard - Grass Knot/Protect Of course, what would I do in a hail team without Abomasnow? It can be lead if you wish it to be, but I generally save up Aboma until later. Blizzard is just fantastic in hail and SubSeeding is just plain annoying. Grass Knot is just an auxiliary move in case Blizzard runs out (8 PP drains very quickly) while Protect is useful for scouting Choiced users. [sprite]365[/sprite] Claudia the Walrein@Leftovers Bold Ice Body EVs: 220 HP/228 Def/60 Speed - Substitute - Protect - Roar/Super Fang - Blizzard/Surf The infamous Stallrein... yeah, I'm the person that made people hate this thing in Project Pokemon (but Stallrein was well known before that). Anyhow the EVing is very specific. 220 HP with 31 IVs hit 416 HP, which is very important. If your Walrein's HP IV isn't 31, adjust it so that it hits 416. That is pretty much the only important stat here... aside from Speed. With 31 IVs in Speed and 60 Speed EVs with neutral nature, you will hit 181 Speed, which is enough to outpace most Skarmory which sit in 178-180 Speed or whatnot so you can proceed to outphaze them with Roar. Some Skarmories are paranoid and hit 181 or even 182. If you are paranoid about those, then move some Defense EVs into Speed... but the problem is Walrein will lose out some defensive capabilities. The remainder really just goes into Defense (you can put some in SpA, but Walrein loves its defense). Funnily enough, + nature 228 with 31 IVs hit 300 Defense, which is a nice even number. To stall with this maniac, keep spamming Substitute + Protect in that order while in hail. Trust me... it just works and you will effectively outstall at least 2 Pokemon and it is almost guaranteed to work for 32 turns. Once HGSS comes out, I might consider using Super Fang... heh heh. Evil... and Super Fang will make it even worse. [sprite]073[/sprite] Jelly the Tentacruel@Black Sludge (Leftovers for Poison Pokemon) Calm Liquid Ooze/Clear Body 252 HP/120 Def/136 SpDef - Rapid Spin - Knock Off - Toxic Spikes - Surf Tentacruel's poison typing buys it some good resistances. With max HP and 120 Defense EVs, it is only 3HKOd by Infernape's Close Combat while Surf will OHKO it with SR or Life Orb recoil. Not only that but Tentacruel can eat Toxic Spikes, set up Toxic Spikes on its own, Rapid Spin away other entry hazards, Knock Off the opponent's leftovers so that Walrein can stall without worrying about Leftovers canceling out hail, and is THE best counter to MixApes (one of the most common sets for Infernape). This thing just cannot go wrong... but aside from utility, it does not serve much other purpose... although it still survives a Life Orb'd Alakazam's Psychic O_O [sprite]473[/sprite] Tuscanini the Mamoswine@Life Orb Naughty Snow Cloak 252 Atk/20 SpA/236 Speed - Earthquake - Stone Edge/Superpower - Ice Shard - Blizzard It should be named "the beast". Oh boy... Mamoswine is a TERROR. It is my answer to a 6 DD'd Salamence who will fall to an Ice Shard (even Intimidate doesn't save it from an OHKO). With Life Orb, it allows for more damage, and STAB Earthquake is very menacing to anything not flying or levitating. Stone Edge is for coverage, and Blizzard is for stuff like Skarmory thinking they can come in and wall this set. In hail, Blizzard will 2HKO the metal birdy. However, due to the Life Orb recoils, Mamo usually ends up getting KOd fast, but not before wreaking mass havoc on the opponent's team... and Snow Cloak only magnifies the problem for the opponent. Also, Mamo is not afraid of the sand. [sprite]478[/sprite] Autumn the Froslass@Leftovers/BrightPowder/Petaya Berry/Focus Sash Timid 6 Def/252 SpA/252 Speed - Spikes - Thunder Wave/Thunderbolt/HP Fire - Substitute/Thunderbolt/Shadow Ball - Blizzard/Destiny Bond Pretty much the spin blocker/crippler of this team. With Snow Cloak, it becomes even more of a nightmare. And for stuff like Azelf thinking they can switch in while Frossy subs, Frossy can TWave it and cripple it making it quite crippled for the rest of the match. Blizzard with STAB works pretty well even with Froslass's modest SpA of 80. While she blocks rapid spin, she can also set up Spikes of her own, helping stuff like Walrein do even more damage. Froslass is quite tricky and usually gets her job done. Since stuff like Scizor can come in while she forces a switch and subs, sometimes I put in HP Fire to surprise them. Common threats: [sprite]212[/sprite] Scizor: Banded versions like to spam U-turn, so I usually bring in Tentacruel to soak up the damage and set up. Otherwise, if it is an SD version, my Swampert can phaze it out and eventually be worn out by hail damage or from STAB EQs from Mamoswine and Swampert alike. I do not have a direct answer to it yet though. I can proceed to outstall it with Walrein if I am lucky though. [sprite]392[/sprite] Infernape: Mixapes go down to Tentacruel. Pure physical versions go down to Swampert. Sure, some may carry Grass Knot, but without much investment in SpA, they will never OHKO. Mixapes, though, carry Life Orb, threatening Swampert. Infernapes switching into Froslass won't enjoy a Thunder Wave, making it an easy bait to Swampert/Mamoswine. [sprite]145[/sprite] Zapdos: Swampert eats non-HP-Grass versions (stupid Hidden Powers). Those with HP Grass, I wish I had Gliscor, but I do not, so I suppose Mamoswine can do. HP Grass and Heat Wave are problems, but Mamo is faster than defensive versions and neither Heat Wave nor HP Grass will OHKO. The offensive variants though are less defensive, so they will go down quicker. If Mamo is down, Frossy can revenge kill. Non-Heat Wave versions mean easy target for Abomasnow. [sprite]448[/sprite] Lucario: Swampert soaks up damage and OHKOs with EQ. Predicted Close Combats can be taken by Froslass who can Sub in return (hoping that Snow Cloak works, if not... then I just suck) and Thunder Wave them to cripple them and let something like Mamoswine finish them off. Swampert easily phazes SD versions as well. Special versions, though, might spell trouble. Froslass can come in to Aura Sphere I suppose and cripple it with Thunder Wave. Special versions WILL give me a lot of trouble. [sprite]248[/sprite] Tyranitar: Swampert eats them for breakfast. Mamo also works if Swampert is low on health. Tyranitar is probably threat #1 and should be eliminated at ALL costs before Abomasnow bites the dust. [sprite]450[/sprite] Hippowdon: Abomasnow can still take it down one on one (I just need to beware of Stone Edge). Swampert eats the hippo for breakfast too. [sprite]214[/sprite] Heracross: This thing WILL hurt like crazy and doesn't mind switching into Toxic Spikes at all. Guts boosted Close Combats and Megahorns from every side... ouch! But once it is weakened enough, Mamo can revenge kill it. Froslass can come in to Close Combats and Sub up and hope for a miss while Toxic takes its toll. Other than that, I do not know what to say about them. Bulk Up versions can be phazed out and usually do not do enough damage. [sprite]376[/sprite] Metagross: Swampert resists most moves and can Protect when they Explode... or just switch to Froslass if I predict that. There are Grass Knot variants... but they're a little less than versatile with that set. Metagross is still a fierce opponent and should not be underestimated. [sprite]407[/sprite] Roserade: Leads are a BIG problem... they carry Leaf Storm and HP Fire, which spells doom for Swampert AND Abomasnow AND Mamoswine. I suppose Tentacruel can switch in, but it cannot do anything back. Plus Roserades carry Sleep Powder. One wrong move and I am done in if Roserade happens to crash the parade. Froslass can revenge kill but leads carry Focus Sash and still cripple with Sleep or HP Fire. Ugh... much more difficult than I expected. I will not say I do not have an answer to Roserade, but... this thing will keep me on my toes. [sprite]065[/sprite] Alakazam: This thing almost swept my team once. I won't let that happen again. No one will really do anything about this guy... so once one of my person is down, Mamo can come in and Ice Shard it for an easy KO. Due to my luck its Focus Blast will probably hit me every single time. Otherwise, I'm screwed. [sprite]094[/sprite] Gengar: This thing looks like a miniature Alakazam at first... but with immunities to Spikes/Toxic Spikes... and Toxic itself along with three immunities... this thing will be one tough customer. Fortunately it isn't too durable so in a few hits it should go. But it is very unpredictable so I will be expecting a lot of trouble from it. [sprite]121[/sprite] Starmie: Abomasnow is my only answer to this fiend. Other than that, Starmie is one tough cookie to break down... spinning away my spikes, Natural Cure taking away the Poison, etc... hmmm... Shadow Ball on Froslass? Not a bad idea... but Starmie is faster >.< [sprite]130[/sprite] Gyarados: This thing is evil. VERY evil. Swampert can phaze it out but cannot take too much beatings. Once Walrein comes in, Gyarados might Taunt, but those can be 3HKOd with Blizzard. But the offensive ones will probably get hurt from mass Stealth Rocks and hail... and still cannot take too much, so I guess I should rely on residual damage... which isn't a good thing by the way. Gyarados is the reason why I carry Thunderbolt on Froslass sometimes. [sprite]373[/sprite] Salamence: Mamoswine will scare it away. Swampert can handle it just fine too... and if Salamence doesn't have Dragon Dance, Froslass will definitely scare it away, allowing me to set up freely. Mence can be scary though... and Specsmence with Draco Meteor means I really cannot switch into it directly. Salamence can probably kill off someone in my team and is a dangerous foe to consider. [sprite]227[/sprite] Skarmory: it will not survive 2 hits from Swampert's Hydro Pump (which misses for me anyhow) nor can it take Abomasnow's Blizzards (the max SpA version though). Mamo will not be walled because it also has Blizzard. [sprite]242[/sprite] Blissey: UGH... I suppose Toxic Spikes is fun, but Natural Cure. . . if it is their last Pokemon though, it will not be a problem for Walrein to outstall. Mamoswine can probably take it down one on one though, but even then, Blissey will usually spell trouble for me. How ironic. I carry special attackers but no special walls. Hmmm... [sprite]068[/sprite] Machamp: No Guard + Dynamicpunch = dead me. I can switch to Froslass and Blizzard it once it uses that, but it will probably kill me with Payback. Since hax always works on me anyways, Dynamicpunch should either be all used up or I just rely on the RNG to not hurt myself while in confusion... which isn't going to happen. [sprite]466[/sprite] Electivire: Swampert takes non-HP Grass versions... but even then they can't OHKO while EQ OHKOs them anyways. Mamo can do the same thing but needs to watch out for Cross Chop (which will hit and crit me)/Flamethrower/Fire Punch... but the latter two would probably never OHKO. If it is weakened enough Froslass can revenge kill it. Those without Cross Chop or Flamethrower or Fire Punch can be walled by Abomasnow... somewhat. I just need to make sure to never Thunder Wave that thing and I'll be all right. [sprite]467[/sprite] Magmortar: Swampert can take non-HP Grass versions... while EQ OHKOs them anyways... hey. Weren't we here before? Yeah... Earthquake from Swampert takes them down too. I do not know what else though... because Magmortar is quite a tricky fellow. Otherwise, it wouldn't want to be near Swampert. It cannot directly switch into Mamo either... but Flame Body WILL activate on me and burn me while I Ice Shard it... sigh. Tentacruel would be even better... but I should take precaution of Thunderbolt... which almost all of them carry. [sprite]395[/sprite] Empoleon: Mamo can never switch in directly but it can Earthquake it for a OHKO. Swampert might work but these things carry Grass Knot (>.<). Agility sets are scary though and I should probably nail them before they even get that chance. I suppose Abomasnow can take everything it uses with ease and Leech Seed and start annoying it. I just hope I don't eat a Petaya + Torrent + STAB Surfs though. *gulp* [sprite]131[/sprite] Lapras: Lapras can cause me troubles thanks to Water Absorb and 4x resist to Ice. However, Abomasnow might be able to take it down. The others, well, not so much. It is bulky enough to take Mamo's attacks and then destroy the Mammoth with STAB Surf. Lapras can be quite a force... but Abomasnow is all I have against it. [sprite]135[/sprite] Jolteon: Abomasnow walls it... but I should watch out for Signal Beams (they do not really carry that though). Swampert takes down non-HP Grass ones (why is it that everyone loves HP Grass so much??) and Mamo could probably just eat it up. [sprite]243[/sprite] Raikou: goes down slowly to Toxic Spikes... and will not enjoy Mamoswine either. Non HP Grass versions go down to Swampert... yadda yadda yadda... and Abomasnow walls it as well. [sprite]485[/sprite] Heatran: Swampert used Earthquake! Need I say more? Although... they say lead Heatrans carry HP Grass nowadays... JUST because of that blasted Mudfish. What can I say? Tentacruel can probably take them down as well. Earth Power will 3-4HKO at best (barring my bad luck with double criticals and special defense drops...). If Scarf locks it into a non-Fire move, Mamoswine can scare it away. [sprite]251[/sprite] Celebi: is evil... and I have nothing that can really deal with it aside from Froslass. [sprite]385[/sprite] Jirachi: ... is evil as well and really I have no other way to deal with it if it flinchhaxes me to death (which it almost always succeeds in doing). However it will not enjoy a Mamoswine's Earthquake. [sprite]488[/sprite] Cresselia: they won't usually hurt much but they are maniacs and can take massive hits. I do not have a direct answer to this thing yet, especially not the Resttalk versions. [sprite]380[/sprite] Latias: whoever made her OU... ARGH! I suppose once she is weakened enough Mamoswine can finish her off. Otherwise she is VERY tough to take down... and no I do not use Scizor or Tyranitar. [sprite]173[/sprite] [sprite]035[/sprite] [sprite]036[/sprite] Chaos/Terror/Queen Mab: Froslass = free switch in for those evil Endeavor sets... Serious Clefable: this thing CAN give me trouble thanks to its versatility... but they're not all that spectacular, so Mamo could probably take it down. However they will probably screw me over somewhat... so I must beware. They are unpredictable and can do some crazy stuff like no recoil Life Orb attacker or Cosmic Power staller... Weaknesses: - No Wishpasser, so durability is hampered >.> - Overly relying on Swampert to take down counters... - No true special wall ... Yep this team needs a lot of fixing. It looks like I'd need a Rotom Appliance or Blissey or something. So what is your hail team for? Stalling... or pretty much an all out offensive one with hail mixed in it for destruction? Edited September 13, 2009 by wraith89
memjee Posted September 14, 2009 Posted September 14, 2009 Ok.. Great update on your team! But now your missing something extremely vital to any stall team. A Ghost Pokemon... If you get rapid spinned your hail stall is completely ruined. Here are some good options Froslass - Like before always a good option, Useful moves... Substitute, T-wave, Shadow Ball, Blizzard, Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Thundebolt Rotom - Any rotom applaince depending on your team can greatly assist you. Rotom-F can provide yet another blizzard of you can never get enough. Rotom-W with hydro-pump can rid you can fire and rock pokemon, Rotom-H can overeat ridding you of major threats like Scizor and Lucario, Rotom-S is te likes of Heracross, Machamp, and breloom (And also an excellent hitmotop counter which don't come often but they do come) Spiritomb - It's major advantage over other bulky ghost pokemon is that it has no weakness!!! Dusknoir - Very Sturdy
Ithiliond Posted September 14, 2009 Author Posted September 14, 2009 wraith89 said: Need instructions on how to use that evil Walrein? Here is a warstory on how I used Walrein to destroy 5 Pokemon by simply outstalling them.http://projectpokemon.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1324 However, remember that it requires a lot of support to pull it off, such as Toxic Spikes. For your Abomasnow, replace Giga Drain with Protect or Grass Knot. Grass Knot whacks stuff like Hippowdon or Tyranitar if they switch in and change the weather while Protect can help scout for moves and provide extra healing if you have it Glaceon, though, probably shouldn't be using that Calm version set (I only suggested it as a novelty, but it actually works in UU... and destroys stuff like Raikou without Resttalk quite easily) =P If you want a good Wishpasser, look no further than Clefable or Blissey or Vaporeon or something. Glaceon has good defenses, but bad defensive typing and low HP, which shouldn't be used. Glaceon should probably be sweeping because once it is in, no one wants to take in a STAB Blizzard in the face (252 HP/252 SpA/6 Speed Modest will do). The Calm version, if you wish to use it, uses Wish/Protect/Roar/Blizzard. Wish + Protect gives you a free 50% recovery set (albeit using up 2 turns) while Roar phazes out stuff and Blizzard is there for STAB. If you do not need phazing, replace Roar with something like Shadow Ball or Hidden Power Fighting or something. Also, you shouldn't be running 252 HP EVs on Walrein. I'll explain below on why. Here is my hail team that I have been using for quite a while if you wanted to know an example (it was also my first team ^^). I hope you can learn something from it...: Reveal hidden contents Team Fimbulvetr The object of my team: To stall out opponents with Hail and entry hazards while still doing enough damage to keep them on their toes Other notes: All sets/Pokemon/color of my T-shirt is subject to change at anytime [sprite]260[/sprite] Kip the Swampert@Leftovers/Rindo Berry Relaxed EVs (assuming 31 everywhere because I use this in Shoddy): 200 HP/228 Def/80 SpA (or sometimes 240 HP/216 Def/52 SpA) - Stealth Rock - Ice Beam/Protect - Earthquake - Hydro Pump/Roar/Surf Yeah I use Swampert as a lead because common leads like Metagross/Heatran/Weavile/Infernape/Aerodactyl fall to it. Unlike Aerodactyl it can actually survive and come back later to take down stuff like Tyranitar and tank physical hits from dragons and hit back with Ice Beam. Stealth Rock is the best move in game, so I might as well use it. Swampert really helps this hail team a lot. To keep the opponents guessing, I almost never use the same Swampert twice in a row, changing my movesets as indicated. Swampert really doesn't need Attack EVs because EQ still OHKOs stuff like Lucario and Infernape anyways. [sprite]460[/sprite] Fimbulvetr the Abomasnow@Leftovers Timid EVs: 252 HP/6 Def/252 Speed or 6 Def/252 SpA/252 Speed - Leech Seed - Substitute - Blizzard - Grass Knot/Protect Of course, what would I do in a hail team without Abomasnow? It can be lead if you wish it to be, but I generally save up Aboma until later. Blizzard is just fantastic in hail and SubSeeding is just plain annoying. Grass Knot is just an auxiliary move in case Blizzard runs out (8 PP drains very quickly) while Protect is useful for scouting Choiced users. [sprite]365[/sprite] Claudia the Walrein@Leftovers Bold Ice Body EVs: 220 HP/228 Def/60 Speed - Substitute - Protect - Roar/Super Fang - Blizzard/Surf The infamous Stallrein... yeah, I'm the person that made people hate this thing in Project Pokemon (but Stallrein was well known before that). Anyhow the EVing is very specific. 220 HP with 31 IVs hit 416 HP, which is very important. If your Walrein's HP IV isn't 31, adjust it so that it hits 416. That is pretty much the only important stat here... aside from Speed. With 31 IVs in Speed and 60 Speed EVs with neutral nature, you will hit 181 Speed, which is enough to outpace most Skarmory which sit in 178-180 Speed or whatnot so you can proceed to outphaze them with Roar. Some Skarmories are paranoid and hit 181 or even 182. If you are paranoid about those, then move some Defense EVs into Speed... but the problem is Walrein will lose out some defensive capabilities. The remainder really just goes into Defense (you can put some in SpA, but Walrein loves its defense). Funnily enough, + nature 228 with 31 IVs hit 300 Defense, which is a nice even number. To stall with this maniac, keep spamming Substitute + Protect in that order while in hail. Trust me... it just works and you will effectively outstall at least 2 Pokemon and it is almost guaranteed to work for 32 turns. Once HGSS comes out, I might consider using Super Fang... heh heh. Evil... and Super Fang will make it even worse. [sprite]073[/sprite] Jelly the Tentacruel@Black Sludge (Leftovers for Poison Pokemon) Calm Liquid Ooze/Clear Body 252 HP/120 Def/136 SpDef - Rapid Spin - Knock Off - Toxic Spikes - Surf Tentacruel's poison typing buys it some good resistances. With max HP and 120 Defense EVs, it is only 3HKOd by Infernape's Close Combat while Surf will OHKO it with SR or Life Orb recoil. Not only that but Tentacruel can eat Toxic Spikes, set up Toxic Spikes on its own, Rapid Spin away other entry hazards, Knock Off the opponent's leftovers so that Walrein can stall without worrying about Leftovers canceling out hail, and is THE best counter to MixApes (one of the most common sets for Infernape). This thing just cannot go wrong... but aside from utility, it does not serve much other purpose... although it still survives a Life Orb'd Alakazam's Psychic O_O [sprite]473[/sprite] Tuscanini the Mamoswine@Life Orb Naughty Snow Cloak 252 Atk/20 SpA/236 Speed - Earthquake - Stone Edge/Superpower - Ice Shard - Blizzard It should be named "the beast". Oh boy... Mamoswine is a TERROR. It is my answer to a 6 DD'd Salamence who will fall to an Ice Shard (even Intimidate doesn't save it from an OHKO). With Life Orb, it allows for more damage, and STAB Earthquake is very menacing to anything not flying or levitating. Stone Edge is for coverage, and Blizzard is for stuff like Skarmory thinking they can come in and wall this set. In hail, Blizzard will 2HKO the metal birdy. However, due to the Life Orb recoils, Mamo usually ends up getting KOd fast, but not before wreaking mass havoc on the opponent's team... and Snow Cloak only magnifies the problem for the opponent. Also, Mamo is not afraid of the sand. [sprite]478[/sprite] Autumn the Froslass@Leftovers/BrightPowder/Petaya Berry/Focus Sash Timid 6 Def/252 SpA/252 Speed - Spikes - Thunder Wave/Thunderbolt/HP Fire - Substitute/Thunderbolt/Shadow Ball - Blizzard/Destiny Bond Pretty much the spin blocker/crippler of this team. With Snow Cloak, it becomes even more of a nightmare. And for stuff like Azelf thinking they can switch in while Frossy subs, Frossy can TWave it and cripple it making it quite crippled for the rest of the match. Blizzard with STAB works pretty well even with Froslass's modest SpA of 80. While she blocks rapid spin, she can also set up Spikes of her own, helping stuff like Walrein do even more damage. Froslass is quite tricky and usually gets her job done. Since stuff like Scizor can come in while she forces a switch and subs, sometimes I put in HP Fire to surprise them. Common threats: [sprite]212[/sprite] Scizor: Banded versions like to spam U-turn, so I usually bring in Tentacruel to soak up the damage and set up. Otherwise, if it is an SD version, my Swampert can phaze it out and eventually be worn out by hail damage or from STAB EQs from Mamoswine and Swampert alike. I do not have a direct answer to it yet though. I can proceed to outstall it with Walrein if I am lucky though. [sprite]392[/sprite] Infernape: Mixapes go down to Tentacruel. Pure physical versions go down to Swampert. Sure, some may carry Grass Knot, but without much investment in SpA, they will never OHKO. Mixapes, though, carry Life Orb, threatening Swampert. Infernapes switching into Froslass won't enjoy a Thunder Wave, making it an easy bait to Swampert/Mamoswine. [sprite]145[/sprite] Zapdos: Swampert eats non-HP-Grass versions (stupid Hidden Powers). Those with HP Grass, I wish I had Gliscor, but I do not, so I suppose Mamoswine can do. HP Grass and Heat Wave are problems, but Mamo is faster than defensive versions and neither Heat Wave nor HP Grass will OHKO. The offensive variants though are less defensive, so they will go down quicker. If Mamo is down, Frossy can revenge kill. Non-Heat Wave versions mean easy target for Abomasnow. [sprite]448[/sprite] Lucario: Swampert soaks up damage and OHKOs with EQ. Predicted Close Combats can be taken by Froslass who can Sub in return (hoping that Snow Cloak works, if not... then I just suck) and Thunder Wave them to cripple them and let something like Mamoswine finish them off. Swampert easily phazes SD versions as well. Special versions, though, might spell trouble. Froslass can come in to Aura Sphere I suppose and cripple it with Thunder Wave. Special versions WILL give me a lot of trouble. [sprite]248[/sprite] Tyranitar: Swampert eats them for breakfast. Mamo also works if Swampert is low on health. Tyranitar is probably threat #1 and should be eliminated at ALL costs before Abomasnow bites the dust. [sprite]450[/sprite] Hippowdon: Abomasnow can still take it down one on one (I just need to beware of Stone Edge). Swampert eats the hippo for breakfast too. [sprite]214[/sprite] Heracross: This thing WILL hurt like crazy and doesn't mind switching into Toxic Spikes at all. Guts boosted Close Combats and Megahorns from every side... ouch! But once it is weakened enough, Mamo can revenge kill it. Froslass can come in to Close Combats and Sub up and hope for a miss while Toxic takes its toll. Other than that, I do not know what to say about them. Bulk Up versions can be phazed out and usually do not do enough damage. [sprite]376[/sprite] Metagross: Swampert resists most moves and can Protect when they Explode... or just switch to Froslass if I predict that. There are Grass Knot variants... but they're a little less than versatile with that set. Metagross is still a fierce opponent and should not be underestimated. [sprite]407[/sprite] Roserade: Leads are a BIG problem... they carry Leaf Storm and HP Fire, which spells doom for Swampert AND Abomasnow AND Mamoswine. I suppose Tentacruel can switch in, but it cannot do anything back. Plus Roserades carry Sleep Powder. One wrong move and I am done in if Roserade happens to crash the parade. Froslass can revenge kill but leads carry Focus Sash and still cripple with Sleep or HP Fire. Ugh... much more difficult than I expected. I will not say I do not have an answer to Roserade, but... this thing will keep me on my toes. [sprite]065[/sprite] Alakazam: This thing almost swept my team once. I won't let that happen again. No one will really do anything about this guy... so once one of my person is down, Mamo can come in and Ice Shard it for an easy KO. Due to my luck its Focus Blast will probably hit me every single time. Otherwise, I'm screwed. [sprite]094[/sprite] Gengar: This thing looks like a miniature Alakazam at first... but with immunities to Spikes/Toxic Spikes... and Toxic itself along with three immunities... this thing will be one tough customer. Fortunately it isn't too durable so in a few hits it should go. But it is very unpredictable so I will be expecting a lot of trouble from it. [sprite]121[/sprite] Starmie: Abomasnow is my only answer to this fiend. Other than that, Starmie is one tough cookie to break down... spinning away my spikes, Natural Cure taking away the Poison, etc... hmmm... Shadow Ball on Froslass? Not a bad idea... but Starmie is faster >.< [sprite]130[/sprite] Gyarados: This thing is evil. VERY evil. Swampert can phaze it out but cannot take too much beatings. Once Walrein comes in, Gyarados might Taunt, but those can be 3HKOd with Blizzard. But the offensive ones will probably get hurt from mass Stealth Rocks and hail... and still cannot take too much, so I guess I should rely on residual damage... which isn't a good thing by the way. Gyarados is the reason why I carry Thunderbolt on Froslass sometimes. [sprite]373[/sprite] Salamence: Mamoswine will scare it away. Swampert can handle it just fine too... and if Salamence doesn't have Dragon Dance, Froslass will definitely scare it away, allowing me to set up freely. Mence can be scary though... and Specsmence with Draco Meteor means I really cannot switch into it directly. Salamence can probably kill off someone in my team and is a dangerous foe to consider. [sprite]227[/sprite] Skarmory: it will not survive 2 hits from Swampert's Hydro Pump (which misses for me anyhow) nor can it take Abomasnow's Blizzards (the max SpA version though). Mamo will not be walled because it also has Blizzard. [sprite]242[/sprite] Blissey: UGH... I suppose Toxic Spikes is fun, but Natural Cure. . . if it is their last Pokemon though, it will not be a problem for Walrein to outstall. Mamoswine can probably take it down one on one though, but even then, Blissey will usually spell trouble for me. How ironic. I carry special attackers but no special walls. Hmmm... [sprite]068[/sprite] Machamp: No Guard + Dynamicpunch = dead me. I can switch to Froslass and Blizzard it once it uses that, but it will probably kill me with Payback. Since hax always works on me anyways, Dynamicpunch should either be all used up or I just rely on the RNG to not hurt myself while in confusion... which isn't going to happen. [sprite]466[/sprite] Electivire: Swampert takes non-HP Grass versions... but even then they can't OHKO while EQ OHKOs them anyways. Mamo can do the same thing but needs to watch out for Cross Chop (which will hit and crit me)/Flamethrower/Fire Punch... but the latter two would probably never OHKO. If it is weakened enough Froslass can revenge kill it. Those without Cross Chop or Flamethrower or Fire Punch can be walled by Abomasnow... somewhat. I just need to make sure to never Thunder Wave that thing and I'll be all right. [sprite]467[/sprite] Magmortar: Swampert can take non-HP Grass versions... while EQ OHKOs them anyways... hey. Weren't we here before? Yeah... Earthquake from Swampert takes them down too. I do not know what else though... because Magmortar is quite a tricky fellow. Otherwise, it wouldn't want to be near Swampert. It cannot directly switch into Mamo either... but Flame Body WILL activate on me and burn me while I Ice Shard it... sigh. Tentacruel would be even better... but I should take precaution of Thunderbolt... which almost all of them carry. [sprite]395[/sprite] Empoleon: Mamo can never switch in directly but it can Earthquake it for a OHKO. Swampert might work but these things carry Grass Knot (>.<). Agility sets are scary though and I should probably nail them before they even get that chance. I suppose Abomasnow can take everything it uses with ease and Leech Seed and start annoying it. I just hope I don't eat a Petaya + Torrent + STAB Surfs though. *gulp* [sprite]131[/sprite] Lapras: Lapras can cause me troubles thanks to Water Absorb and 4x resist to Ice. However, Abomasnow might be able to take it down. The others, well, not so much. It is bulky enough to take Mamo's attacks and then destroy the Mammoth with STAB Surf. Lapras can be quite a force... but Abomasnow is all I have against it. [sprite]135[/sprite] Jolteon: Abomasnow walls it... but I should watch out for Signal Beams (they do not really carry that though). Swampert takes down non-HP Grass ones (why is it that everyone loves HP Grass so much??) and Mamo could probably just eat it up. [sprite]243[/sprite] Raikou: goes down slowly to Toxic Spikes... and will not enjoy Mamoswine either. Non HP Grass versions go down to Swampert... yadda yadda yadda... and Abomasnow walls it as well. [sprite]485[/sprite] Heatran: Swampert used Earthquake! Need I say more? Although... they say lead Heatrans carry HP Grass nowadays... JUST because of that blasted Mudfish. What can I say? Tentacruel can probably take them down as well. Earth Power will 3-4HKO at best (barring my bad luck with double criticals and special defense drops...). If Scarf locks it into a non-Fire move, Mamoswine can scare it away. [sprite]251[/sprite] Celebi: is evil... and I have nothing that can really deal with it aside from Froslass. [sprite]385[/sprite] Jirachi: ... is evil as well and really I have no other way to deal with it if it flinchhaxes me to death (which it almost always succeeds in doing). However it will not enjoy a Mamoswine's Earthquake. [sprite]488[/sprite] Cresselia: they won't usually hurt much but they are maniacs and can take massive hits. I do not have a direct answer to this thing yet, especially not the Resttalk versions. [sprite]380[/sprite] Latias: whoever made her OU... ARGH! I suppose once she is weakened enough Mamoswine can finish her off. Otherwise she is VERY tough to take down... and no I do not use Scizor or Tyranitar. [sprite]173[/sprite] [sprite]035[/sprite] [sprite]036[/sprite] Chaos/Terror/Queen Mab: Froslass = free switch in for those evil Endeavor sets... Serious Clefable: this thing CAN give me trouble thanks to its versatility... but they're not all that spectacular, so Mamo could probably take it down. However they will probably screw me over somewhat... so I must beware. They are unpredictable and can do some crazy stuff like no recoil Life Orb attacker or Cosmic Power staller... Weaknesses: - No Wishpasser, so durability is hampered >.> - Overly relying on Swampert to take down counters... - No true special wall ... Yep this team needs a lot of fixing. It looks like I'd need a Rotom Appliance or Blissey or something. So what is your hail team for? Stalling... or pretty much an all out offensive one with hail mixed in it for destruction? I really like your team, but even if i'm not for "an all out offensive team with hail mixed in it for destruction" (in fact, as i see, i think ice-team cannot be effectively offensive without mixing up), i prefer making it a little more offensive than stalling. My original idea was being offensive but still annoying thanks to Snow Cloak, poisoning and hail, having 2, or maybe 3, tanks/walls/defence based pokemon, and still being competitive. The only problem is whether it is possible or not. What do you think about it? P.S. I won't pass Glaceon over for this team. P.P.S. Tanks you all for help :smile:
wraith89 Posted September 14, 2009 Posted September 14, 2009 Ithiliond said: I really like your team, but even if i'm not for "an all out offensive team with hail mixed in it for destruction" (in fact, as i see, i think ice-team cannot be effectively offensive without mixing up), i prefer making it a little more offensive than stalling. My original idea was being offensive but still annoying thanks to Snow Cloak, poisoning and hail, having 2, or maybe 3, tanks/walls/defence based pokemon, and still being competitive. The only problem is whether it is possible or not.What do you think about it? P.S. I won't pass Glaceon over for this team. P.P.S. Tanks you all for help :smile: Aside from Mamoswine, none of my Pokemon are really all that offensive. Ice seems to have been meant to be an offensive type, not defensive (blame Gamefreak... I really dislike them for that). The thing is, to have a hail team, you're pretty much required to have Abomasnow, Walrein, and Tentacruel (actually, I guess you can pass the latter two, but those two make a hail team really effective)... and the rest pretty much supports them. So if you want Glaceon... that makes 4... and you only have 2 more space left. Get two things that will complement your Fire/Fighting/Rock weakness... Moltres can help but it is 4x weak to Rock... Magnezone can come in and trap Scizor and resists Rock... but is weak to Fighting and Fire... and you might want a ghost like Rotom to prevent stuff from rapid spinning away your Stealth Rocks and Toxic Spikes. The problem is... any grounded Poison Pokemon can eat up Toxic Spikes, so you should take care to get rid of any Poison Pokes your opponent has (most do not like STAB Blizzard anyways). Yeah... it is quite difficult... so what exactly do you wish to do? Hail stall or hail offense? I read the "My original idea was being offensive but still annoying thanks to Snow Cloak, poisoning and hail, having 2, or maybe 3, tanks/walls/defence based pokemon, and still being competitive." but I'm still thinking... As you can see, I have it "mixed"... but it is a LOT more stallish than anything else. I'm trying to think of a way to fit a Glaceon in your team, but it seems pretty difficult. I mean, I use Glaceon myself, but I use the wallish type only in UU while I surprise people with a Choice Scarf'd version in OU. Or do you think the team should base itself around Glaceon?
Ithiliond Posted September 14, 2009 Author Posted September 14, 2009 wraith89 said: Aside from Mamoswine, none of my Pokemon are really all that offensive. Ice seems to have been meant to be an offensive type, not defensive (blame Gamefreak... I really dislike them for that).The thing is, to have a hail team, you're pretty much required to have Abomasnow, Walrein, and Tentacruel (actually, I guess you can pass the latter two, but those two make a hail team really effective)... and the rest pretty much supports them. So if you want Glaceon... that makes 4... and you only have 2 more space left. Get two things that will complement your Fire/Fighting/Rock weakness... Moltres can help but it is 4x weak to Rock... Magnezone can come in and trap Scizor and resists Rock... but is weak to Fighting and Fire... and you might want a ghost like Rotom to prevent stuff from rapid spinning away your Stealth Rocks and Toxic Spikes. The problem is... any grounded Poison Pokemon can eat up Toxic Spikes, so you should take care to get rid of any Poison Pokes your opponent has (most do not like STAB Blizzard anyways). Yeah... it is quite difficult... so what exactly do you wish to do? Hail stall or hail offense? I read the "My original idea was being offensive but still annoying thanks to Snow Cloak, poisoning and hail, having 2, or maybe 3, tanks/walls/defence based pokemon, and still being competitive." but I'm still thinking... As you can see, I have it "mixed"... but it is a LOT more stallish than anything else. I'm trying to think of a way to fit a Glaceon in your team, but it seems pretty difficult. I mean, I use Glaceon myself, but I use the wallish type only in UU while I surprise people with a Choice Scarf'd version in OU. Or do you think the team should base itself around Glaceon? You're right, i guess the point is that ice-type pokemon has a lot of weaknesses, so an ice/hail team is "doomed" to be a stall team. For that purpose, i think your build is "quite perfect". I'll start breeding tomorrow ^.-. Anyway i'd really like making a team with Glaceon or other eeveelutions ( <3 ), but i'll probably open a new thread for this. Thank you again :wink:
wraith89 Posted September 14, 2009 Posted September 14, 2009 Ithiliond said: You're right, i guess the point is that ice-type pokemon has a lot of weaknesses, so an ice/hail team is "doomed" to be a stall team. For that purpose, i think your build is "quite perfect". I'll start breeding tomorrow ^.-.Anyway i'd really like making a team with Glaceon or other eeveelutions ( <3 ), but i'll probably open a new thread for this. Thank you again :wink: Well, a hail team can be effective but you just shouldn't play with 6 Ice Pokemon. I blame Gamefreak for giving Ice a resistance to only Ice itself. My build isn't exactly perfect as there are glaring weaknesses, but feel free to experiment. So far it has been undefeated (you just have to play the cards correctly ) I have tried other Pokemon, like Articuno in a hail team. Surprisingly, if you can get around the 4x SR weakness, Articuno works really well. If you wanted to try a team of 6 Eeveelutions, you should try a Baton Passing team... but it falls to Toxic Spikes so quickly it is not funny (I have one).
Ithiliond Posted September 14, 2009 Author Posted September 14, 2009 wraith89 said: Well, a hail team can be effective but you just shouldn't play with 6 Ice Pokemon. I blame Gamefreak for giving Ice a resistance to only Ice itself.My build isn't exactly perfect as there are glaring weaknesses, but feel free to experiment. So far it has been undefeated (you just have to play the cards correctly ) I have tried other Pokemon, like Articuno in a hail team. Surprisingly, if you can get around the 4x SR weakness, Articuno works really well. If you wanted to try a team of 6 Eeveelutions, you should try a Baton Passing team... but it falls to Toxic Spikes so quickly it is not funny (I have one). Got it, maybe a sandstorm team would be more offensive than this one ^^". For the eeveelution team, you can put a driflblin/gligar with baton pass and defog. I'll open a thread for this maybe, or i'll send you a PM :smile:
Gin Posted September 15, 2009 Posted September 15, 2009 Sandstorm? Sandstorm CAN be offensive, but it's defensive potential is amazing. I use a sandstall team as my main, I can show you if you'd like.
wraith89 Posted September 15, 2009 Posted September 15, 2009 Seems like rating this team is... done? I guess I will close this. If you are making a sand team RMT, then start a new topic.
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