Pokemon battle poses in summary screen

[kadabrium]

When you tap a pokemon in the summary screen it will make various poses, which correspond to its movements when using different types of moves in battle.

For example,

Greninja has 3, which can be represented by Dark Pulse (stands up and raises its hand over the head), Shadow Sneak (flips around and chops with one hand) and Water Shuriken(well,.. throws shuriken).

Yveltal has 4, Dark Pulse, Oblivion Wing, Sucker Punch and Dragon Rush(iirc)

I tested once with greninja and got the following sequence:

dwsddsdddswswsdsswssswwswwdssdswdsdswdwsdssdwdwwwwdwdwswwwsswdwwdswswswwdwsdwwsddddsdddwwwsswwsddswdsddwdswdddsdswssswswwwsssdd

which totals:

40 dark pulse

43 shadow sneak

44 water shuriken

These may not be exactly accurate (recorded and counted by hand only once) but generally it seems that they are evenly distributed.

[OmegaDonut]

I've been aware of this - Chatot has exactly 2 evenly-distributed poses, which makes it ideal and possible to determine the RNG state from its poses alone.

However, a brute-force search using this information would take months, so I've been looking into mathematical shortcuts.

[kadabrium]

In gen5, unova link calibration was pretty fast, but thats with many specified ds parameters. Is the lack of these params that makes it difficult in this case, or theres somrthing else care to elaborate?

[kadabrium]

I've been aware of this - Chatot has exactly 2 evenly-distributed poses, which makes it ideal and possible to determine the RNG state from its poses alone.

However, a brute-force search using this information would take months, so I've been looking into mathematical shortcuts.

technicallyanotherquestionbutnotfeelinglikeanotherthread

This article reported that Spinda pattern (but not necessarily the PID itself, since the PID this generation is related to nothing but shiny value) in breeding is determined by the same rng as the IVs.

''The lower-right spot of a spinda is determined by the upper 4 bit of its PID, from the same RN whose upper 32bit would produce the next IVs in the RN sequence. An IV of 3 corresponds to an upper 4bit range of 18-1f, while 19 to 98-9f.

With the IV sequence determined as 31,24,3,19,..., the spinda's spot is found to correspond with the IVRN of 3, for the egg whose IV was used up to 24. ......''

[kadabrium]

doineedtobump

[Kaphotics]

The PID is used for more things than just shininess (gender for sure and probably initial ability / wurmple evolution too, unless I'm totally wrong). Spinda spots are now believed to be based on the encryption constant (no need to decrypt PKX to make spots).

Good luck getting poses and generating an egg to get the 32 bit value. We don't even know if it is modified in any way, or if any RNG advancements were to occur.

It's best to find something with a multitude of repeatable random responses; the more the better.

In the meantime there's a few better things to do than get your initial RNG state; we have no way to know how it is modified or used when generating Pokemon if we cannot see the raw data in-game. Hence why battle video uploads (to check breeding inheritance/pid/ec) or total dumps are a higher priority.

[kadabrium]

The PID is used for more things than just shininess (gender for sure and probably initial ability / wurmple evolution too, unless I'm totally wrong). Spinda spots are now believed to be based on the encryption constant (no need to decrypt PKX to make spots).

Good luck getting poses and generating an egg to get the 32 bit value. We don't even know if it is modified in any way, or if any RNG advancements were to occur.

It's best to find something with a multitude of repeatable random responses; the more the better.

In the meantime there's a few better things to do than get your initial RNG state; we have no way to know how it is modified or used when generating Pokemon if we cannot see the raw data in-game. Hence why battle video uploads (to check breeding inheritance/pid/ec) or total dumps are a higher priority.

Fairy nuff.

Care to propose a possible explanation of why the IV sequence coincides with the spinda spot then? The last thing i dont totally understand.

[Kaphotics]

There are a bunch of inaccuracies regarding the article; they assumed the spot pattern was determined by the PID. They never proved where anything came from - It is hard to believe that they wouldn't carry over their Gen V RNG calculations so that the mersenne no longer set IVs.

[kadabrium]

So like in gen5, all attributes of the egg are determined by a single separate sequence (probably derived from 2 consecutive MTs), but here also including both the actual pid and another "spinda pattern determiner" which is independent from the actual pid but follows the same format as a 4th gen iv-pid?

[Kaphotics]

So like in gen5, all attributes of the egg are determined by a single separate sequence (probably derived from 2 consecutive MTs), but here also including both the actual pid and another "spinda pattern determiner" which is independent from the actual pid but follows the same format as a 4th gen iv-pid?

6 MT sequences (one per IV) then overwritten by inherited IVs. There are no more PID-IVs.

1 Call for PID

1 Call For Nature

1 Call for DW ability

one call per try of inheritance

it's a lot of rand calls. They assumed stuff and were wrong.

[kadabrium]

But isnt it like that in gen5 the breeding rn sequence follows BWLC advancement pattern despite being derived from a pair of MTRNs? In other words that the breeding rng sequencr isnt the main MT itself?

Edit: citation added http://blog.livedoor.jp/x_x_saki_x_x/archives/54021240.html

And I didnt mean the main pid, but the independent spinda pattern determiner which you proposed.

The spinda pattern id coincides with the subsequent unused terms of the ivrng, in the same way as a 4th gen iv sequence corresponding to a 4th gen spinda pattern (which is derived from the iv-pid). The whole question only concerns the spinda pattern's relation to the rns, not the formal pid which the article mentioned nothing about.

[Kaphotics]

The whole breeding routine is covered in this post. It always generates 6 individual IVs from the Mersenne Twister, and everything else is from the 64bit LCRNG.

Gen5 spots were based on the PID; this gen they aren't. There was no correlation shown in the article. There will be no "new spinda painter" because the spots in gen 6 are now based on the encryption constant, which has no use besides encryption and spots.

If you're saying that the Mersenne Twister sets the encryption constant with two calls and the IVs have some sort of derived relation; it's hard to see that given the article is Japanese but we'll see when dumps come.

[kadabrium]

Maybe im not making this clear so.

In bw1, the whole egg rng process is initiated real-time by the main Pidrng, while MT rns are only separately called when unibherited ivs come into need.

Bw2, the seed of the rng is no longer a frame of the main pidrng, but derived(the article didnt explain how) from 2 calls of MT when the previous egg has been taken. This seed does not change until the rng process is initiated&completed when the egg is generated. Everything except pid is derived from this seed and its subsequent frames, including the uninherited ivs. The pid is determined later when taking the egg, by the main pidrng.

Xy, the seed still appear fixed, again indicating a separate rng sequence like in bw2. The difference is that the true pid (gender, etc) and the encrypt constant is now from this rng as well.

The article's conjectures "gender is independent from pid" should be understood as "pid(=gender)is independent from the encryption constant(=spinda)", and "pid is determined last" as "encryption constant is determined last". The fact that gendered pokemon is 1 frame behind the genderless in everything else, may indicate that the true pid is the first to be determined in the process.

[Kaphotics]

b2w2 eggs are the same as BW except the first egg uses a LCRNG seed from the save file.

there's always 6 calls to the twister first, and then inherited IVs overwrite them. not two.

so in that effect, the link you provided is wrong.

Also, no the encryption constant has no IV relation. Whatever that link noticed was just coincidence (with the plethora of provided bred PKX's, there's no way there's a relation between IVs and ec)

[kadabrium]

Not saying that the EC is directly related to the ivs, but that they arr generated by the same RN sequence, as shown that if a spinda has the first spot corresponding to an iv of 3, then if the frame is advanced by 1 (due to additional steps in the process eg gendered vs genderless) the new eggd have its last iv as 3.

What im still trying to say is that the seed for the next egg certainly is fixed by the time the previous egg is taken. No matter how many steps/long time itd take to generate the next egg, the result is always the same. I do understand theres no way to find how this rng is seeded; it may be from anything, 2 mts, 6 mts, or even sth else. In bw2 this was seeded from 2 mts as　s[0] = (t[n]<<32) + t[n+1](for the first egg, the mts when the game started the first time) and advanced like the LC as 　s[n+1] = s[n] * 0x5D588B656C078965 + 0x269EC3 but i wouldnt be surprised at all if these exact formulae have changed.