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Posted

Introduction

I play in the official Smogon OU tier. Personal issues have stopped me from batting as much as I'd prefer, but another issue has arisen. I'm finding to have some problems with my team. So, at the risk of losing every battle I have on these forums, I will post my team in-depth here for you to critique.

Building Process

I wanted a sunny day team, just to prove that they can win in OU. Here's what I went through for my team.

189.png

I needed a lead that could get sun up, and get out quickly. Jumpluff was the answer. She would incapacitate with sleep powder, sunny day on the switch, and u-turn out with new found chlorophyll speed.

189.png103.png

I needed a sweeper, so I got a nice sweeper. With awesome chlorophyll speed, solarbeam, and other nice sweeping moves, I thought Exeggutor would be perfect.

189.png103.png251.png

I wanted to have someone to come in and set sun up again, in case Jumpluff died. Celebi was the one, especially with the T-Wave support it offered.

189.png103.png251.png485.png

I figured fire would tear my team up, so I put Heatran in, since his flash fire would absorb any incoming fire moves, and he could counter with an Earth Power.

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I thought the more sun support the better. With the ability to moonlight/toxic stall, Cresselia was the perfect addition to my team.

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At this point, I thought about Tyranitar. What would I do with one of those nasty buggers? I put Dugtrio in, because an EQ from him would tear a Tyranitar up.

437.png103.png251.png485.png488.png051.png

Jumpluff didn't work out so well, so I put Bronzong in. He can come in again and again with his amazing bulk, and explode when he's all worn out.

In-Depth

Here's my team in-depth, with my opinions on each Pokemon.

bronzong.png

Bronzong @ Heat Rock

Ability: Levitate

Sassy {+SpD, -Spe}

EVs: 252 HP / 124 Def /132 SpD

RockIC_Big.png Stealth Rock

FireIC_Big.pngSunny Day

GroundIC_Big.pngEarthquake

NormalIC_Big.pngExplosion

Even though he wasn't originally in the team, he's amazing.

EVs and Nature:

Sassy seemed like the best choice for this guy, obviously improving his bulk, while reducing speed, a useless stat for him. 252 HP EVs is the best option in my opinion, because he needs a lot of bulk to be able to switch in to get Sunny Day up multiple times. The split EVs in each defense is a given. They help add even more bulk to back up the HP.

Moveset:

This moveset is pretty awesome, if I may say so. He always gets stealth rocks up, almost always gets Sunny Day up, and can switch back in to set both up again if need be. He can explode when he's used up, too. Earthquake shocks a lot of people, but he never does enough damage for the surprise to matter. I'm looking for a replacement for earthquake.

celebi.png

Celebi @ Leftovers

Ability: Natural Cure

Timid: {+Spe, -Atk}

EVs: 236 HP / 78 Spe / 200 SpA

ElectricIC_Big.pngThunder Wave

GrassIC_Big.pngSolarbeam

FireIC_Big.pngSunny Day

NormalIC_Big.pngRecover

This Pokemon really needs to be replaced, it never helps me in battle, ever.

EVs and Nature:

Timid gives this guy a boost in speed, while hurting it's attack, which doesn't matter anyway. Sure, not the best for this type of Celebi, but I want it gone anyway. The EVs make it slightly bulky, a little fast, and will give it's Solarbeam a punch (if it ever gets one off).

Moveset:

Terrible moveset, I may have been high when making it. Recover to recover, obviously. I suppose I wanted ANOTHER sunny day utility, since this Pokemon has sunny day too. Solarbeam is beastly, but Celebi never gets it off. The T-wave occasionally helps, but not enough to make me want to keep this Pokemon.

Cresselia.png

Cresselia @ Leftovers

Ability: Levitate

Bold: {+Def, -Atk}

EVs:252 Sp Def / 252 HP / 6 SpA

PsychicIC_Big.pngPsychic

PsychicIC_Big.pngMoonlight

FireIC_Big.pngSunny Day

PoisonIC_Big.pngToxic

Cresselia in one word: Amazing. No two ways about it.

EVs and Nature:

The combination of Bold and the Special Defense EVs allows this thing to wall both physical and special attacks. Nothing can stop this Pokemon from walling. The attack lost from Bold is lulz, since it doesn't EVER use attack.

Moveset:

This moveset allows me to get Sunny Day support, and makes Cresselia an efficient wall. The Sunny day is on it for obvious reasons, but it also boosts the power of moonlight; it will heal 3/4 HP if Sunny day is active. Toxic/Moonlight stall works crazily well. Psychic actually does do some damage, but is mostly there because I don't like having a Pokemon with no offensive moves on it.

heatran.png

Heatran @ Life Orb

Ability: Flash Fire

Naive: {+Spe, -SpD}

EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd

FireIC_Big.pngFire Blast

GroundIC_Big.pngEarth Power

GrassIC_Big.pngSolarBeam

NormalIC_Big.pngExplosion

Good Pokemon to have, rapes most fire types, other than Infernape.

EVs and Nature:

The Naive nature seems to be working well, as if Heatran gets hit with a special attack anyway he'll be toast. The speed allows me to outspeed most other Heatrans, so I can kill them. The little atk EVs are for exploding, and the other EVs are self explanatory.

Moveset:

I like Fire Blast, the increased power is worth the lack of accuracy. The amount of times I've missed is so low I barely even notice it. Earth Power is a given, gets rid of other Heatrans. Solarbeam shocks those slow, "bulky" water types. Explosion gets me one more kill when Heatran is all used up.

103exeggutor.gif

Exeggutor @ Choice Specs

Ability: Chlorophyll

Timid: {+Spe, -Atk}

EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP

GrassIC_Big.pngSolarbeam

PsychicIC_Big.pngPsychic

PoisonIC_Big.pngSludge Bomb

RockIC_Big.pngAncientpower

Good in theory, but never ends up doing much in game.

EVs and Nature:

Timid gives him a lot of speed, especially with choice specs. The 252/252/4 spread is rather self-explanatory, I won't bore you with any of that.

Moveset:

Ancientpower needs to go, it's useless in general. Sludge Bomb is useful for taking out other Grass types, Solarbeam is wicked STAB, as is Psychic. I think this guy needs to be replaced. Or maybe I should just take the Choice Specs off. Who knows?

051Dugtrio.png

Dugtrio @ Choice Band

Ability: Arena Trap

Adamant: {+Atk, -SpA}

EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd

FlyingIC_Big.pngAerial Ace

RockIC_Big.pngStone Edge

GroundIC_Big.pngEarthquake

DarkIC_Big.pngSucker Punch

Ah, yes. The Tyranitar counter.

EVs and Nature:

Adamant and 252 Attack and Speed are to maximize attack power, especially to Tyranitar, this team's worst enemy. Again, rather self explanatory. Maximize attack and speed, revenge kill.

Moveset:

Earthquake rapes almost everything, sucker punch helps for Gengar among others, and stone edge kills those pesky flying types that don't get killed by Earthquake. Aerial Ace doesn't actually do all that much, however.

~The End.

Posted

Sadly, It doesn't work. I did an amazingly in-depth research into the metagame, and built around 20 Sunny Day teams. The simple fact is, they don't work. The reason for this, isn't neccassarily lack of Permanent sun, but of the current pool of Pokémon who can abuse it. A Sunny Day team in this meta, needs to win in about 12 turns. Otherwise, you're screwed. Despite this, I will try and rate you're team.

Switch Bronzong to Heatproof, and it becomes a Heatran Counter. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY uses ground moves on Bronzong, unless they surprisingly do pitiful damage with a Fire Blast. If the sun is up, null what I just said (FireBlast outside of sun=~40%)

Solar Beam is the worst move possible in this Metagame. Here's how the typical play would work out.

[insert Pokémon here used Sunny Day]

I switch to Tyranitar now, while you begin Solar Beam.

Now your Solar Beam is weaker, and I get a free turn. Also, while Heatran is awesome considering your Fire Weaknesses, he's so common in the meta, there are a plethora of counters to him, and as such, will be taken out early. (He's on one out of every four teams). Again, Solar Beam hurts his performance, as his biggest counter is Tyranitar. Don't you dare get rid of Exeggutor. He's your saving grace. Ditch Solar Beam, iirc he gets Flamethrower+Sun. If you need Stab, go with Leaf Storm. He'll be forced out quickly anyway.

Dugtrio doesn't do anything to gengar. Gengar knows about Sucker Punch, and will switch out. Levitate>Arena Trap.

Posted

Well.. hearing that first bit makes me not want to even to continue this team.. I want a somewhat "special" team (SS, Hail, TR, ect.) But regular teams work better for me.

Posted

Because in 5th Gen; Ninetales gets Drought as a Dream World ability, allowing for infinite sun. Just as well, there are more, and better chlorophyll users, and a good selection of fire types. All around it's pretty sweet.

Posted
  Sabeta said:
Ninetales gets Drought as a Dream World ability

Are you serious? Drought comes to something lower than Uber!? I'm going to cry (tears of joy).

Posted (edited)
  Gin said:
I don't want to seem rude, but scrapping this one seems like the best option

No, you're definitely right. I made a new team, for gen 5. It needs some work, but it functions relatively well.

Ninetales (F) @ Lum Berry

Trait: Drought

EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd

Hardy Nature

- Hypnosis

- Roar

- Overheat

- Substitute

Urugamosu (M) @ Leftovers

Trait: Swarm

EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd

Hardy Nature

- Butterfly Dance

- Fire Blast

- Bug Buzz

- Hidden Power [ice]

Shandera (M) @ Choice Scarf

Trait: Flash Fire

EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd

Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)

- Overheat

- Energy Ball

- Shadow Ball

- Hidden Power [Ground]

Venusaur (M) @ Life Orb

Trait: Chlorophyll

EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd

Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)

- Growth

- SolarBeam

- Sludge Bomb

- Sleep Powder

Forretress (M) @ Leftovers

Trait: Sturdy

EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef

Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)

- Payback

- Pain Split

- Toxic Spikes

- Rapid Spin

Cresselia (F) @ Leftovers

Trait: Levitate

EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef

Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)

- Psychic

- Moonlight

- Toxic

- Protect

Didn't want to make a new thread just for this, please rate it here (if you do want to rate it).

Logs:

Against an Uber team:

  Reveal hidden contents

In Doubles (Accidental Battle):

  Reveal hidden contents
Edited by 0660
Added Logs
Posted
  Gin said:
Weather is spread around, though standard OU will probably NOT allow DW abilities..

I don't want to seem rude, but scrapping this one seems like the best option

Untrue good sir. They will likely only be banned until the Japanese release of the ability. I see absolutely zero reason to ban any Dream World abilities. The most broken by far is Shadow Tag shandera, and even then it's too frail, and most the meta is too bulky, for it to be deemed Uber.

As for you 0660, I would take Nintales out of the lead position. She's too fast. When playing weather, the slower Pokémon is the one whose weather will stay, so if you go against a Tyranitar/Politoad/obambasnow, the turn will look like this

"The Suny intensified"

"It started to Hail/Rain/Sandstorm"

and you're forced to switch immediately. I would put Shandera in the lead, give it specs or scarf. Have it run Focus Blast and Energy Ball. (Note, you need specs for the following to work) so that it becomes a perfect counter to Tyranitar and Politoad leads, and with that; you can safely bring out the sun without worries.

Uru is an amazing pokemon, no exceptions. I sweep teams with it all the time. It's my ace in the hole, even at 50%.

For a special Sun Sweeper, it doesn't get better than Victreebell; try Weather Ball and Leaf Storm, and watch the carnage you get.

Posted

Venusaur and Victreebel somewhat overlap in roles though... Venusaur is faster and bulkier and even has the same SpA as Victreebel but is weaker physically and does not learn Weather Ball. Just keep Venusaur in if he is your style, as he is also capable of running mixed sets.

Posted

Mixed would work, but I'm enjoying my Sludge Bomb/Solarbeam Combo. I find solarbeam actually useable with drought. Besides, if a weather changer comes in, I'll sleep it, and bring sun back up.

Posted

The problem though, is if weather changes, you have to wait a turn, You don't get to sleep, because they just killed you.

I find Victreebell MUCH better. Weather Ball, even if your opponent goes for Rain, is a 150 Power Water Move, which even many water types don't like to look at. With Leave Storm, he kills a good majority of them as well.

Posted

Venusaur's 80 base speed and extra bulk can make quite a bit of difference mind you. However, with access to Weather Ball, this means you can leave an open slot for a Hidden Power of your choice as opposed to Venusaur (hmm... Hidden Power Ground/Rock or something comes into mind to deal with Fires), although Victreebel does get priority in the form of Sucker Punch (Platinum/HGSS move tutors). It really depends on the OP's preferences really. I've used Victreebel tons of times even before Gen V and found it very useful... but it found very little time to set up. And unfortunately for either of the two, rain speeds up some rain abusers so neither Venusaur nor Victreebel like taking Ice Beams or Ice Punches from their water opponent (without STAB or any other boost it won't KO, but still... hurts!) As for Weather Ball... base 150 Fire attack against opponent Grassers or Steels = profit... so take your pick. Growth raising both attack stats + 2 in the sun is like Shell Smash without the speed boost (but speed is provided by the sun, so no worries)... and no defense penalty, so if you get the chance to set up... great! Just watch out for other weather set uppers, of course.

I will have to agree about the Solarbeam part with Sabeta... which can mess up if you fire Solarbeams too liberally, so be careful of that. I'd say Substitute or something can help, but that's another turn wasted. They bring a Cloud Niner/Rayquaza... yeah... another screw up (not to mention Rayquaza can set up that turn with impunity and take the incoming Solarbeam like a champ... but then again Rayquaza will most likely get banned). Or worse... they bring a Tyranitar with its bloated special defense in the sand and try to bring in their Landorosu (that troll Raijin leader with Sand Throw ability) or that broken Mole with their sand combo, taking advantage of your liberal Solarbeams and sweeping through your team no problem. Just saying to be careful there. But honestly, I prefer Energy Ball/Grass Knot usually as it does not really have that penalty and is usually enough to OHKO those who are weak to Grass (though Swampert lives non STABd versions).

Posted (edited)

Hmm...

Here's a very rough outline of a Moveset:

Victreebel (M) @ Life Orb

Trait: Chlorophyll

EVs: 6 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd

Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)

- Weather Ball

- Hidden Power [Ground]

- Leaf Storm

- Synthesis

Weather Ball for obvious Reasons, Leaf Storm for STAB, HP Ground for Fire Types. I'm thinking Fire (or Water if rain comes out), Grass, and Ground types will give me some nice coverage, and a Sun-Boosted Synthesis will help the Life Orb damage. Thoughts?

Also, Venusaur's SpA was 299, *4 with 3 Growths under the sun, makes it 1196. That plus STAB and Life Orb makes it INSANE.

Edited by 0660
added moveset analysis; stat calc stuff
Posted

Victreebell at *4 is 982, but that's with neutral nature.

If you want, you can run Growth on him too, for the +2 to your special attack, if you do that, Sucker Punch is a very viable move over say Hidden Power.

Both builds are fine though. I also tested Venusaur, it's rock solid as a Pokemon, both are quite respectable.

Posted

I don't know about that, Heatran with a balloon could easily take Venusaur. It gets rid of its 4x weakness making it a very useful item for Heatran.

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