Sabeta Posted August 7, 2010 Posted August 7, 2010 Welcome to my Sandy Storms RMT. I am going to attempt something, that I doubt has ever been attempted before, and if it has, then it wont be as good as I intend this to be. Anyone can make your standard weather team, and many people are adept at Tricky Sand, and Gravi Sand, but nobody has tried to mix two weathers together, into one team. Which brings me to this team, Sandy Storms, as the name implies, I will be mixing the Sand and the Rain. This idea is borderline stupid, and quite gimmicky, but it's just stupid enough to work. Let's get started, shall we? Team at a Glance Making the Team Well then, I need Sandstorm. Now setting up sandstorm and rain is impractable, so I need an auto sand like Tyranitar to set it up, not only that, but I need someone who can set up the rain, AND isn't damaged too much by it. I decided that I would go for a sort of mixed Tyranitar. Isn't it called Tyraniboah? Either way, Tyranitar is perfect for the job. He has access to a plethora of moves, and has natural bulk that allows him to actually set up the rain, most taunt leads are azelf, aerodactyll, and infernape, and with the exception of the latter Tyranitar will easily dispatch them. Even if he doesn't get the rain up, it doesn't matter, the sand will suffice just as well. The goal of the team, is to gain benefits from the rain when needed, but simultaneously not be hurt badly by the sand, and not relying too much on either one. Empoleon is a perfect addition to this team. It isn't hurt by Sandstorm, and it's STAB water moves get a bonus from the Rain. A naturally powerful pokemon, with a welcome array of resitances, and above par offensive stats. Empoleon is truly a pokemon worthy of this team. Very flexible as well, with a decent number of sets such as the Sub Peteya, and the Agility sets, this little monster here can be difficult to predict, and if you give it the time to set up, you will likely be hard pressed to take it down. A double ground, and a double fighting weakness, are not welcome however, and will need to be remedied before this team is finished. Yet another perfect team mate. Everyone loathes scizor. It is without a doubt deserving of its place in the top 10 most used OU pokemon. Even better, is the fact that sand wont be touching this bug, and rain will be dropping its one and only weakness. While he doesn't abuse the rain like say empoleon, he does use it to his advatange in this scenario. Great typing has gifted him with only a single weakness, and a respectable amount of resitances. Not only is he great as far as typing goes, but he's also an amazing contender physically. Scizor, usually runs one of two sets, LO or Choice Band. The CB set gives scizor some remarkable stat boosts, but my personal favorite is the LO set. It has the potential to be so much more stronger, and its more flexible. Rain or Sand, Scizor is a great team mate. A team this crazy is bound to force tons of switches. As such, I need Stealth Rocks. I might not be using it as a lead, but It doesn't take much to get Stealth Rocks up, and with this guy's amazing typing, its not hard to get a switch in either. Its one and only weakness is grass, which is more than covered for by scizor. Partial ground typing mans Sandstorm wont effect it, and water typing gives its STAB water moves a significant boost during the rain. I'm currently debating weather or not I should make this one a back up Rain Dancer. I would like to point out that common threats to any Ou team, such as Gyarados and Salamence, hate SR, and I will enjoy slinging them around. Excellant typing, and two of the greatest types to give STAB too, this pokemon is an obvious choice for my team. And here we have Latias. This pokemon doesn't really benefit from the sand, but luckily I can turn it off, and give latias some recovery with Lefties. Normally though lefties will just be cancelled. Recover will be there for...well recovery, and I think I want to go with CM, for maximum carnage. This guy here is mostly to get rid of my weakness to Ground and Fighting. Plus access to surf is always a nice bonus in the rain. Handles Infernape most of the time, unless it carries ice punch/hidden power [ice] but in those cases it likely wont carry grass knot, and swampy can do the job. Alright, and in the final slot goes Zapdos. The last slot was a bit of a tough choice, I could either role with manaphy or Zapdos, and it was tough to choose who. After playing around with both briefly, I ended up siding with Zapdos, for the reason of Heatwave, and scarf. now in the rain Heatwave does little, but is still a decent move to pack on this team. Zapdos provides excellant all around coverage for the team, as well as a nice natural bulk; which I tend to abuse on most of my teams. --- Now that you know why I have chosen the various members of this team, I will go in depth into each pokemon, explain there movesets, and the usefulness of each pokemon. This will be the bulkier portion of this RMT, and is intended to show you exactly what I'm trying to do with this team. A Closer Look Tyranitar (M) @ Damp Rock Ability: Sand Stream EVs: 168 HP/252 Atk/90 Def Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Crunch - Aqua Tail - Earthquake - Rain Dance --- Notes: Ah, Tyranitar. My all-time favorite lead. Steps in, sets up sandstorm, and crushes most opposotion with one fell swoop. Popular leads such as azelf often have time to only set up rocks before succumbing to the machinations of Tyranitar. This particular set likes to parade as a CB Tar, belying the fact that it secretly carries a wet rock and can summon forth the rain. While it might seem redundant to give an auto weather pokemon like Tyranitar a move that sets up weather, it is actually quite useful. A good example, is against opposing Sandstorm teams. Now if that happens, then we both gain advantages, but what if I shift the sands to rain? Now my opponent will lose all the benefits sand provided them, while I reap the rewards of Rain. I am however considering swapping out his item, since he doesn't always use the dance, as often as a later pokemon on my team does. The set I gave him is meant to maximize on killing effiency. Rain boosts the power of Aqua Tail, giving him a sort of "Pseudo-Stab" since I had to cut out Stone Edge. Low accuracy moves tend to prove the downfall of most tyranitar, and I decided that Stone Edge was the move to dispel. Tyranitar swiftly handles common leads such as Azelf, Aerodactly (who does only a rough 50% to me) and Heatran, while other popular leads like Infernape scare me off. Thankfully the sand breaks its sash, and I get a near free switch as it always goes for rocks/fake out. Tyranitar also gets the added benefits of 50%+ Special Defense when the sand is up, making this powerhouse a monstrous tank. Now then, even though Tyranitar is a true monster, and well deserving of its spot as the Number 2 most Ou pokemon alive. (number one being Scizor at the time of posting) he is also prone to a few outstanding weaknesses. Some of these include Scizor, Fighting types in general, and on occasion the plethora of powerhouses who can carry Earthquake, as well as the multitude of enemy Tyranitar out there, who ALL can typically take on this Tyranitar, since the one is burdened with lack of any stat upping moves. As a lead he is usually rock solid, but often times he may have a tough time switching back in, and typically when he does, its throw sand in your face while you KO it. It is because of this, that I consider removing his Damp stone, and replacing it with perhaps leftovers, or Lum Berry. The rest of my team, easily supports Tyranitars weaknesses however, as will be covered in this RMT. Empoleon (M) @ Life Orb Ability: Torrent EVs: 24 HP/232 Spd/252 SAtk Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk) - Hydro Pump - Ice Beam - Grass Knot - Agility --- Notes: Now here is where a piece of the plan begins to unfold. Empoleon is a Steel/ Water type, as many people know, and as such has a great number of resistances, as well as only a few weaknesses, all the weaknesses of water have been traded in, to be replaced by the weaknesses of steel (most of which are also neutralized) Coupled with this superb typing, it is blessed with a wonderful movepool, and great for many situations. On top of that, it is immune to Sandstorm, and gets a boost from Rain. I decided to go with the Agility set, since I wanted more attacking freedom than the sub petaya set could offer, and slapped on a Life Orb for a quick power boost. After a single Agility, Empoleon outspeeds a large portion of the metagame, such as Infernape, and Salamence, barring those who carry scarves. Not only that, but it resists most every Priority move, with the exception of the rare Mach Punch/Vacuum Wave. This set can be walled, fairly easily, by a large portion of Steel type pokemon. In fact, some pokemon, like heatran, can easily revenge kill it if it is a scarf variant. Natually fast pokemon are also a problem, such as Jolteon, especially if I haven't managed to get any Agility up. Without Agility, Salamence walks all over this guy, and Gyarados is just down right imposing. Some pokemon that are naturally bulky tend to get in the way as well, such as Celebi or Jirachi, and there is always the risk of being trapped by magnezone. If I manage to outspeed magnezone, I can alwas hit him hard with Hydro Pump, but that is playing with chance. Swampert (M) @ Leftovers Ability: Torrent EVs: 252 HP/6 Atk/252 Def Relaxed nature (+Def, -Spd) - Stealth Rock - Earthquake - Rain Dance - Surf --- Notes: A beautiful addition to the team. It's typing is absolutely grand, giving it's one and only weakness of Grass, as well as allowing me immunity to electric attacks, It can wall fairly well and can go toe-to-toe with the likes of Tyranitar. Actually, this is one of my counters to T-Tar, most of them will try to set up first, meanwhile I throw up raining, dropping its Special Defense down to natural levels, and super charging my Surf. Obligatory rocks to put nasty dents in the likes of Salamence and Gyarados, and it can attack with Stab from both ends of the attacking spectrum. It resists bullet punch, so it's capable of scrapping with Scizor on occasion, and has the attack stats to aid in it. It can even defeat such powerful adversaries as Heatran, and the occasional Gliscor. Swamperts key weakness is the grass type, and celebi is a faily dominent pokemon. In fact, Grass types wall this guy, while Steels aren't too much of a problem with this guy. Another thing is that a significant number of pokemon carry Hidden Power [Grass] (I myself am guilty of this) Just for this guy,and other pokemon weak to the grass type. As well as the ever-present Grass Knot. Otherwise simple speed can be Swampy's downfall, by simply hitting it hard enough with a power house attack, you can easily destroy this pokemon. Keep hammering it and it might not be around for long. Scizor (M) @ Life Orb Ability: Technician EVs: 252 Atk/24 Def/232 Spd Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Swords Dance - Bullet Punch - Bug Bite - Superpower --- Notes: Oh goodie, Scizor. This guy is the number one OU pokemon (as of this post) and with good reason too. First of all, he simply destroys Latias, Tyranitar, and with set up, most everything else. Great attack stat, as well as a 90 power Priority move, and it's other moves are great as well. providing excellant coverage. The simple raw power that Scizor brings to the table is always welcome, on nearly every team in existance. In the sand he can abuse that extra damage being dealt to my opponents, (most of the time) and in the rain his one and only weakness is shrugged off. His power is great enough that with little or no set-up it can take on such feared pokemon as Salamence regardless of how many Dragons have danced to his beat. Stealth Rocks support makes this a true monster, taking on other pokemon with ease. being the number one Ou pokemon isn't always a good thing. It means that nearly every team I face will pack a counter for it in some form or another. Be it heatran, zapdos with Heatwave, or even the rotom forms (which is rare on Wifi). Other than the burden of being popular, there honestly isn't a lot of weakneses, he's somewhat frail, but his weaknesses are usually kept in check. He's nearly always guarantee'd a kill if played correctly. His speed is rather lackluster, which can be his own undoing if he's forced to use something not bullet punch. such as when faced with Heatran. Latias (F) @ Choice Specs Ability: Levitate EVs: 6 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk) - Draco Meteor - Surf - Thunder - Trick --- Notes: Obligatory latias that is on every team. I have always been a fan of Trickias, and the specs set made a prime option. Draco meteor is just downright brutal, and the Special Attack drop is nothing to fear really. This set is meant to abuse Latias' naturally high Spa, and the frequenting rain. Thunder can also be used in some emergency situations, but the 70 Acc is a bit of a turn-off, and in most such scenarios Draco Meteor is better. Trick is very rarely used, but has pulled me out of some tough situations in regard to set-up pokemon, such as Tricking a Hippowdon while it was attempting to Stockpile its way into Permawall. This pokemon is a great threat in Ou play, and can dominate a large number of battles. This pokemon bears the same curse as Scizor. Being so popular, many people will bring in a plethora of counters to handle this girl. Ironically enough, Scizor just happens to be the best counter available to Latias. Bullet punch from a scizor is enough to put a massive dent, but often times it will go straight for pursuit, and immediately KO my poor little Latias. Other than that counters include Tyranitar (who has trouble switching into surf) and many pokemon who are Specially defensive, such as blissey or suicune (although a swift thunder can typically incapacitate the latter) Zapdos @ Choice Scarf Ability: Pressure EVs: 6 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk) - Discharge - Heat Wave - Hidden Power [Grass] - U-turn --- Notes: The last member of my team. The thunder bird has risen into very competive play with the sublime addition of Heat Wave, now I know for a fact that HiddenPower [Fire] is often not enough to kill Scizor, and thus Heatwave is unlikely to do so in the rain, but it really depends on the scizor. If the sand is up, Scizor doesn't stand a chance. Zapdos is invaluable as it provides a masterful counter to Gyarados, who nearly always go for Dragon Dance, and after one Dragon Dance Gyarados cannot A) OHKO nor B) outspeed me with my Scarf. Hidden Power [Grass] is to deal with the likes of Hippowdon, swampert, and the occasional Gastrodon. I opted for Discharge for the adequate amount of Hax, and since Rain wont always be up, Thunder would be too risky. U-Turn is there for general scouting, or damaging in an emergency switch/luring opponents into bad moves. Choice choice Choice, oh how easy it is to counter a pokemon once it has been Choiced. If I use Discharge, send in Jolteon, or Swampert, if I use HP [Grass] send in Salamence. Pokemon such as these now get a free turn to set-up or do whatever they feel like doing. Although the item itself cannot be considered for degrading the pokemon. Truley Zapdos' biggest weakness are simply its weaknesses, such as Rock and Ice type moves. Tyranitar proves to be a particular threat all around. Zapdos is a tricky pokemon to play and is quite easily predicted as well. --- Alltogether: This team has funtioned spectacularly. Far greater than my expectations. They managed to pull off a 10-0 win/lose streak, although to be fair, they did lose one match, but it was on behalf of such obsene hax that I refuse to count it towards the score, weather I had one or lost. Surprisingly the ability to shift gears and spawn new weather patterns proves to be extremely useful, Imagine having two teams rolled into one, againt enemy Sandstorm Teams who would otherwise reap the rewards of sand as well as myself, I simply switch over to the rain format, and proceed from there, and switching weathers is often times effortless. there have been moments where I play the entire round in Sand, others where the ratio is 50/50 and a few rare instances where I play pure Rain. I have surprised myself with this team, and I am proud of its extrodinary success. The synergy here is well balanced, as is the playstyle. I tend to focus on Bulky Offense, but i managed to squeeze in enough speed so as not to be outpaced by everyone in the game. A unique, and incredible playstyle, that I am proud to call my own. Nobody I have ever battled, nor anyone I have ever heard of had attempted, let alone pull off, such a team. The weaknesses to this team honestly allude me. The downside to winning 10-0 is that I never gleamed what weaknesses I may or may not have. The team performed as expected in most regards, and has yet to let me down. Once I have learned what those weaknesses are, I will post them here. ---A Side note; I felt like posting an RMT, so I selected one of my older ones, as such, it isn't quite up to snuff with regards to the Tiers, but I really liked this team, and I think I will fix this one up, and drag it out of Retirement. So tell me what you all think. (Like I said, at this point in time, it is Outdated, due to Tier Shifts)
Tbird Posted August 7, 2010 Posted August 7, 2010 Ok I like the premise of the team and it does by all means look completely viable so good job . Welcome to my Sandy Storms RMT. I am going to attempt something, that I doubt has ever been attempted before, and if it has, then it wont be as good as I intend this to be. Anyone can make your standard weather team, and many people are adept at Tricky Sand, and Gravi Sand, but nobody has tried to mix two weathers together, into one team. Which brings me to this team, Sandy Storms, as the name implies, I will be mixing the Sand and the Rain. This idea is borderline stupid, and quite gimmicky, but it's just stupid enough to work. Let's get started, shall we? Team at a Glance A Closer Look Tyranitar (M) @ Damp Rock Ability: Sand Stream EVs: 168 HP/252 Atk/90 Def Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Crunch - Aqua Tail/Stone Edge - Earthquake - Stealth Rock --- Notes: Ah, Tyranitar. My all-time favorite lead. Steps in, sets up sandstorm, and crushes most opposotion with one fell swoop. Popular leads such as azelf often have time to only set up rocks before succumbing to the machinations of Tyranitar. This particular set likes to parade as a CB Tar, belying the fact that it secretly carries a wet rock and can summon forth the rain. While it might seem redundant to give an auto weather pokemon like Tyranitar a move that sets up weather, it is actually quite useful. A good example, is against opposing Sandstorm teams. Now if that happens, then we both gain advantages, but what if I shift the sands to rain? Now my opponent will lose all the benefits sand provided them, while I reap the rewards of Rain. I am however considering swapping out his item, since he doesn't always use the dance, as often as a later pokemon on my team does. The set I gave him is meant to maximize on killing effiency. Rain boosts the power of Aqua Tail, giving him a sort of "Pseudo-Stab" since I had to cut out Stone Edge. Low accuracy moves tend to prove the downfall of most tyranitar, and I decided that Stone Edge was the move to dispel. Tyranitar swiftly handles common leads such as Azelf, Aerodactly (who does only a rough 50% to me) and Heatran, while other popular leads like Infernape scare me off. Thankfully the sand breaks its sash, and I get a near free switch as it always goes for rocks/fake out. Tyranitar also gets the added benefits of 50%+ Special Defense when the sand is up, making this powerhouse a monstrous tank. Now then, even though Tyranitar is a true monster, and well deserving of its spot as the Number 2 most Ou pokemon alive. (number one being Scizor at the time of posting) he is also prone to a few outstanding weaknesses. Some of these include Scizor, Fighting types in general, and on occasion the plethora of powerhouses who can carry Earthquake, as well as the multitude of enemy Tyranitar out there, who ALL can typically take on this Tyranitar, since the one is burdened with lack of any stat upping moves. As a lead he is usually rock solid, but often times he may have a tough time switching back in, and typically when he does, its throw sand in your face while you KO it. It is because of this, that I consider removing his Damp stone, and replacing it with perhaps leftovers, or Lum Berry. The rest of my team, easily supports Tyranitars weaknesses however, as will be covered in this RMT. As to doing what this set wants to do it does it well if that makes sense. However it is very limited and seems like it'll be switching out a whole lot. It's kind of a jack of all trade sort of thing. Instantly, it isn't going to be looking to set up both weather systems, or at least not a whole bunch of time. So for the first turn you're relegated to attacking options. And the problem with that is there are better sets to do this. As you've already said, Aero will take away ~50%, as will most other leads. So bringing it out later is merely for death fodder reasons. And then you got to wonder what your lead has accomplished . While it may have murdered the opposing lead, their lead has already done what it needs to do and has helped them to effectively set up their game plan. A stealth rock set would probably work a lot better. Alas you already know this. But in knowing this you should probably seek for a better set. At the moment, rain dance on this set is redundant, there fore damp rock is too. Personally I think Tyranitar as a lead works for the team just a completely different set than this. SR/Crunch/EQ (SE)/Filler (SE) is probably your best bet. It'll be doing everything your TTar already does, however it gets rocks up sooner, which is always welcomed. I know the accuracy isn't great, but, as you know, it blows chunks out of the opponent. Empoleon (M) @ Life Orb Ability: Torrent EVs: 24 HP/232 Spd/252 SAtk Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk) - Hydro Pump - Ice Beam - Grass Knot - Agility --- Notes: Now here is where a piece of the plan begins to unfold. Empoleon is a Steel/ Water type, as many people know, and as such has a great number of resistances, as well as only a few weaknesses, all the weaknesses of water have been traded in, to be replaced by the weaknesses of steel (most of which are also neutralized) Coupled with this superb typing, it is blessed with a wonderful movepool, and great for many situations. On top of that, it is immune to Sandstorm, and gets a boost from Rain. I decided to go with the Agility set, since I wanted more attacking freedom than the sub petaya set could offer, and slapped on a Life Orb for a quick power boost. After a single Agility, Empoleon outspeeds a large portion of the metagame, such as Infernape, and Salamence, barring those who carry scarves. Not only that, but it resists most every Priority move, with the exception of the rare Mach Punch/Vacuum Wave. This set can be walled, fairly easily, by a large portion of Steel type pokemon. In fact, some pokemon, like heatran, can easily revenge kill it if it is a scarf variant. Natually fast pokemon are also a problem, such as Jolteon, especially if I haven't managed to get any Agility up. Without Agility, Salamence walks all over this guy, and Gyarados is just down right imposing. Some pokemon that are naturally bulky tend to get in the way as well, such as Celebi or Jirachi, and there is always the risk of being trapped by magnezone. If I manage to outspeed magnezone, I can alwas hit him hard with Hydro Pump, but that is playing with chance. I like the Agility set it works well. I think you could benefit from putting HP ground in place of ice beam to get a surprise hit on Magnezone/Heatran and the like. But losing the ice coverage over celebi kind of sucks . Swampert (M) @ Leftovers Ability: Torrent EVs: 252 HP/6 Atk/252 Def Relaxed nature (+Def, -Spd) - Stealth Rock/Roar/Toxic/Yawn/blehhhh - Earthquake - Rain Dance - Surf --- Notes: A beautiful addition to the team. It's typing is absolutely grand, giving it's one and only weakness of Grass, as well as allowing me immunity to electric attacks, It can wall fairly well and can go toe-to-toe with the likes of Tyranitar. Actually, this is one of my counters to T-Tar, most of them will try to set up first, meanwhile I throw up raining, dropping its Special Defense down to natural levels, and super charging my Surf. Obligatory rocks to put nasty dents in the likes of Salamence and Gyarados, and it can attack with Stab from both ends of the attacking spectrum. It resists bullet punch, so it's capable of scrapping with Scizor on occasion, and has the attack stats to aid in it. It can even defeat such powerful adversaries as Heatran, and the occasional Gliscor. Swamperts key weakness is the grass type, and celebi is a faily dominent pokemon. In fact, Grass types wall this guy, while Steels aren't too much of a problem with this guy. Another thing is that a significant number of pokemon carry Hidden Power [Grass] (I myself am guilty of this) Just for this guy,and other pokemon weak to the grass type. As well as the ever-present Grass Knot. Otherwise simple speed can be Swampy's downfall, by simply hitting it hard enough with a power house attack, you can easily destroy this pokemon. Keep hammering it and it might not be around for long. Swampert is a great wall indeed and this works fine. If you go for SR on Ttar then that frees up room for Roar here, or any utility filler of your choice. Scizor (M) @ Life Orb Ability: Technician EVs: 252 Atk/24 Def/232 Spd Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Swords Dance - Bullet Punch - Bug Bite - Superpower --- Notes: Oh goodie, Scizor. This guy is the number one OU pokemon (as of this post) and with good reason too. First of all, he simply destroys Latias, Tyranitar, and with set up, most everything else. Great attack stat, as well as a 90 power Priority move, and it's other moves are great as well. providing excellant coverage. The simple raw power that Scizor brings to the table is always welcome, on nearly every team in existance. In the sand he can abuse that extra damage being dealt to my opponents, (most of the time) and in the rain his one and only weakness is shrugged off. His power is great enough that with little or no set-up it can take on such feared pokemon as Salamence regardless of how many Dragons have danced to his beat. Stealth Rocks support makes this a true monster, taking on other pokemon with ease. being the number one Ou pokemon isn't always a good thing. It means that nearly every team I face will pack a counter for it in some form or another. Be it heatran, zapdos with Heatwave, or even the rotom forms (which is rare on Wifi). Other than the burden of being popular, there honestly isn't a lot of weakneses, he's somewhat frail, but his weaknesses are usually kept in check. He's nearly always guarantee'd a kill if played correctly. His speed is rather lackluster, which can be his own undoing if he's forced to use something not bullet punch. such as when faced with Heatran. Scizor is Scizor. He does what he does. Nothing to say here really. Latias (F) @ Choice Specs Ability: Levitate EVs: 6 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk) - Draco Meteor - Surf - Thunder - Trick --- Notes: Obligatory latias that is on every team. I have always been a fan of Trickias, and the specs set made a prime option. Draco meteor is just downright brutal, and the Special Attack drop is nothing to fear really. This set is meant to abuse Latias' naturally high Spa, and the frequenting rain. Thunder can also be used in some emergency situations, but the 70 Acc is a bit of a turn-off, and in most such scenarios Draco Meteor is better. Trick is very rarely used, but has pulled me out of some tough situations in regard to set-up pokemon, such as Tricking a Hippowdon while it was attempting to Stockpile its way into Permawall. This pokemon is a great threat in Ou play, and can dominate a large number of battles. This pokemon bears the same curse as Scizor. Being so popular, many people will bring in a plethora of counters to handle this girl. Ironically enough, Scizor just happens to be the best counter available to Latias. Bullet punch from a scizor is enough to put a massive dent, but often times it will go straight for pursuit, and immediately KO my poor little Latias. Other than that counters include Tyranitar (who has trouble switching into surf) and many pokemon who are Specially defensive, such as blissey or suicune (although a swift thunder can typically incapacitate the latter) Uber now . Might I suggest Kingdra to fill her spot? Zapdos @ Choice Scarf Ability: Pressure EVs: 6 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk) - Discharge - Heat Wave - Hidden Power [Grass] - U-turn --- Notes: The last member of my team. The thunder bird has risen into very competive play with the sublime addition of Heat Wave, now I know for a fact that HiddenPower [Fire] is often not enough to kill Scizor, and thus Heatwave is unlikely to do so in the rain, but it really depends on the scizor. If the sand is up, Scizor doesn't stand a chance. Zapdos is invaluable as it provides a masterful counter to Gyarados, who nearly always go for Dragon Dance, and after one Dragon Dance Gyarados cannot A) OHKO nor B) outspeed me with my Scarf. Hidden Power [Grass] is to deal with the likes of Hippowdon, swampert, and the occasional Gastrodon. I opted for Discharge for the adequate amount of Hax, and since Rain wont always be up, Thunder would be too risky. U-Turn is there for general scouting, or damaging in an emergency switch/luring opponents into bad moves. Choice choice Choice, oh how easy it is to counter a pokemon once it has been Choiced. If I use Discharge, send in Jolteon, or Swampert, if I use HP [Grass] send in Salamence. Pokemon such as these now get a free turn to set-up or do whatever they feel like doing. Although the item itself cannot be considered for degrading the pokemon. Truley Zapdos' biggest weakness are simply its weaknesses, such as Rock and Ice type moves. Tyranitar proves to be a particular threat all around. Zapdos is a tricky pokemon to play and is quite easily predicted as well. The Latter part took the words right out of my mouth here really so I don't know what to say . Personally I would like to see some real abuse out of the weather to really mix things up. For instance you have a gaping SD Lucario problem at the moment, Gliscor directly counters this, and could work well in place of swampert as a physical wall. It also gets the evasion boost from the sand, and happily takes electric assaults for empoleon. On the other offensive side Kingdra replacing the now Uber Latias could slot in really quite well here as a swift swim sweeper. Though the dragon coverage is now really quite redundant, it hits neutral on a hell of a lot and is powerful. Not to mention it can set up rain in place of Ttar. I think at the moment the weathers are really just gimmicky, while they give small boosts you have got the basis of a really strong weather focused team, if you would just abuse it more. I do however like the team a lot . I would have rated better... but, I'm tired
Sabeta Posted August 8, 2010 Author Posted August 8, 2010 I got around to rebuilding this team on Shoddy, with some of the changes you suggested. I liked what I saw, the results were pretty impressive. For a lackluster example I posted a Warstory in the Warstory section. As for weathers being Gimmicky, It's completely untrue (At least for Sandstorm.)
Gin Posted August 11, 2010 Posted August 11, 2010 I was writing a HUGE response to this, but I accidentally hit the back button on my mouse:( Because of this, I'm just going to condense that message. I have a lot of tough points that need to be made, and I refuse to sugarcoat it. Read it and rant at me about how I'm wrong, I don't really care, I'm just helping you out. If you feel the need to try to defend yourself against someone helping you, then you should be worried about other stuff rather than whether or not this team will succeed. 1.Concept: Weather is a gimmick style of play in generation 4. No point in arguing against it, that's the way it is. Running two weathers is like shooting yourself in the foot. There are several times when you will be wasting turns trying to get the right weather up, and you could easily accidentally help the opponent or hurt yourself. You can't truly abuse both weathers well together, and I think that the cons FAR outweigh the pros. Also, I have a feeling that you thought up this concept, then tried to find stuff that fit it without thinking too much of strategy. I don't think this concept can truly take off, and I especially don't think that this team is using this concept to its full potential (whatever that is). 2. Little effort put in: Despite the fact that you know this team is outdated, you posted this RMT with stuff about Salamence and Latias. I'm fine with you asking about how you can replace Latias, but you are writing like they are both still usable (thankfully they are gone). Also, you obviously haven't looked into or even thought about even month old shifts, let alone present day activity in the metagame. You are hit hard by Fire/Water/Grass core and stuff that try to beat it. Even older stuff like Mixmence, DD mence, Breloom, Scarftar, and Latias tear this team apart. Really, it feels like you were just bored, saw the forum, and decided to post this team. 3. The other stuff: Look at the top 15 OU of July. Of the top 15, you have problems with ALL of them. Gengar or Starmie will stop a LOT of these problems. As it is obvious you haven't tested this concept or this team out anywhere near halfway enough, or at all recently, I'm not going to bother saying much more until you've fixed the thing up, or at least explained it a bit more. If you want me to try it out or try battling it, I'd be happy to oblige, just tell me when you want to meet on Wifi or Shoddy.
Sabeta Posted August 11, 2010 Author Posted August 11, 2010 I was writing a HUGE response to this, but I accidentally hit the back button on my mouse:( Because of this, I'm just going to condense that message. I have a lot of tough points that need to be made, and I refuse to sugarcoat it. Read it and rant at me about how I'm wrong, I don't really care, I'm just helping you out. If you feel the need to try to defend yourself against someone helping you, then you should be worried about other stuff rather than whether or not this team will succeed. Don't worry, I hate sugar-coating. While I do understand you are trying to help, I will in fact defend my reasonings. I do this Primarily, because if I didn't justify anything I did, then I'd just be listening to what any idiot tells me. While I doubt you are any less intelligent than anyone else here, I will still uphold to this. If you can prove your points over mine, then I can see clearly how I was wrong, and will listen as needed. There may be times when I agree, so it's not like I am going to completely set myself against everyone, just to make a point. 1.Concept: Weather is a gimmick style of play in generation 4. No point in arguing against it, that's the way it is. Running two weathers is like shooting yourself in the foot. There are several times when you will be wasting turns trying to get the right weather up, and you could easily accidentally help the opponent or hurt yourself. You can't truly abuse both weathers well together, and I think that the cons FAR outweigh the pros. Also, I have a feeling that you thought up this concept, then tried to find stuff that fit it without thinking too much of strategy. I don't think this concept can truly take off, and I especially don't think that this team is using this concept to its full potential (whatever that is). Most weather teams are Gimmicky. Especially Sunny Day and Hail. (Rain sees some use thanks to Swift Swim) Sandstorm; However, is not. With the ability to completely negate most Leftovers users (Namely Blissey, Celebi, and Suicune) Their ability to stall is already cut down. Constant wear and tear of the Sand, will damage a large portion of the rest, such as Gyarados and Infernape, both of whome typically carry Life Orb, adding onto the Damage. When you count SR Damage, Gyarados really can't stick around for very long. Added to this, is Rock Types (Tyranitar) gain a 50% Special Defense boost, allowing them to take hits much better. Plus, some really killer abilities like Sand Veil (Actually I think that's the only one.). Keep in mind Sand Veil was one of many reasons Garchomp hit the BanWagon. I find Sandstorm to be "Super Effective", and Tyranitar wouldn't be in the Top 10 OU if that weren't true. I realize that THIS team in particular is Gimmicky, as you said, it's like shooting myself in the foot, but I find that I don't use Rain as much. Here's how it would work in a real-scenario. If my opponent has a Sandstorm Team, I could shift gears to Rain Dance, robbing them of their advantage, and giving me one as well, whereas if they were anything else, I stay Sandy. I did the best I could to keep pokemon who could function in both weather's adequetly, and feel that I lived up to this quite well, albeit, the team is now compeltely out of date, which is partially the reason I brought this over from where it was orginally posted, as to help it recieve a sort of "Makeover" . The strategy, if you will, is Bulky Offense. It is how I always used to play, since my style typically involves lots of switching around. 2. Little effort put in: Despite the fact that you know this team is outdated, you posted this RMT with stuff about Salamence and Latias. I'm fine with you asking about how you can replace Latias, but you are writing like they are both still usable (thankfully they are gone). Also, you obviously haven't looked into or even thought about even month old shifts, let alone present day activity in the metagame. You are hit hard by Fire/Water/Grass core and stuff that try to beat it. Even older stuff like Mixmence, DD mence, Breloom, Scarftar, and Latias tear this team apart. Really, it feels like you were just bored, saw the forum, and decided to post this team. [/quote/ Quite a considerable amount of effort went into making the orignal team. It was very good back then, and yes it is now extremely out of date. I more or less posted this straight from the original. In all honesty, I was pretty damn bored, and just posted this because it was the only RMT I had on hand, and I did want to post one. ~Shurgs~ you caught me here. Moving on. 3. The other stuff: Look at the top 15 OU of July. Of the top 15, you have problems with ALL of them. Gengar or Starmie will stop a LOT of these problems. As it is obvious you haven't tested this concept or this team out anywhere near halfway enough, or at all recently, I'm not going to bother saying much more until you've fixed the thing up, or at least explained it a bit more. If you want me to try it out or try battling it, I'd be happy to oblige, just tell me when you want to meet on Wifi or Shoddy. I have tested a more recent version of this team, an example of which can be found in the Warstories section. The team still isn't quite up to snuff. I would actually, be interested in a battle (I almost always am). I'm on most days from 10:30-6:00 GMT-5 (I think, whichever one is Eastern Atlantic Time [uS]) Shoddy Server would be prefferable.
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