Gen 5 OU Rain Team

[Sukotto50]

It's been a while since I last posted a team for assistance. With the introduction of the new weather inducing abilities in Gen 5, I wanted to try my hand at making one of my own. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

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Politoed (M) @ Leftovers

Trait: Drizzle

EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef

Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)

- Scald

- Ice Beam

- Hypnosis

- Protect

My lead for the specific role of weather induction, and to some extent a special wall.

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Rotom-W @ Leftovers

Trait: Levitate

EVs: 128 HP / 252 SAtk / 128 Spd

Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)

- Thunderbolt

- Hydro Pump

- Will-O-Wisp

- Hidden Power [Fire]

My special attacker and, through experience, a valuable asset to a Rain team.

Ferrothorn (M) @ Leftovers

Trait: Iron Barbs

EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef

Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)

- Spikes

- Stealth Rock

- Power Whip

- Gyro Ball

My physical wall and trap setter. Prefer Ferrothorn in this set since one of the greatest threats to him is his fire weakness, which is quickly remedied by the rain, leaving fighting as the considerable danger.

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Toxicroak (M) @ Leftovers

Trait: Dry Skin

EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd

Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)

- Drain Punch

- Sucker Punch

- Substitute

- Bulk Up

My primary physical attacker, and probably the most benefited by the rain thanks to dry skin.

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Cloyster (M) @ Life Orb

Trait: Skill Link

EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd

Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)

- Icicle Spear

- Rock Blast

- Ice Shard

- Shell Smash

My secondary physical sweeper, though I feel that I have been on the wall with Cloyster. Ice shard has come in handy to finish off weak opponents and the dragon/flying and ground/flying foes. Considering replacing with a spinner such as Starmie, but would love some feedback.

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Gliscor (M) @ Toxic Orb

Trait: Poison Heal

EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd

Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)

- Earthquake

- Ice Fang

- Swords Dance

- Protect

I love the ability on Gliscor, and use his typing to the fullest when an electric attack is aimed at one of my waters. However, I haven't managed to really use him to his fullest.

Thanks again for any comments and suggestions that are given. I anxiously await hearing from what people have to say.

Edited April 18, 2012 by wraith89

[TeamRocketCollector]

Politoed: I love this set. Though I don't really like to use Hypnosis due to risky accuracy.

Rotom-W: I happen to use this set myself. Like you, I find it a huge asset in rain. Though I am curious why it has HP Fire when fire is weakened in rain, though I suppose it would still come in handy in other whether too.

Ferrothorn: Great thinking in putting this in a rain team due to its weakness in fire.

Toxicroak: The only thing I would change about this set would be its item. I would give it Black Sludge since it only heals poison types but damages other Pokemon that hold it. This may come in handy if someone tries to use Trick to try and cripple it with a choice item.

Cloyster: I have great news my friend. Cloyster can actually learn Rapid spin. So you may not even need to change it to a Starmie.

Gliscor: Perfect.

[Sukotto50]

Thank you very much for the assistance. I like the idea of using another move in place of hypnosis on Politoed, and have considered running a different rotom set due to the fact that hidden power fire is weakened. I did make the change on Toxicroak from leftovers to black sludge. It was a great choice as someone did try to trick me out, and ended up being hurt in the process. Thank you again.

[TeamRocketCollector]

No problem. I'm glad I could help. Remember, Cloyster can use Rapid Spin. I use a Rapid Spin on my own Cloyster in my Rain Team. It works like a charm. As a remedy for HP Fire on Rotom, you can always throw in HP Fighting since it is also super effective against Ferrothorn as well as Tyranitar, though not as powerful against him. Though it could prove beneficial against steels. However, I've always preferred the classic Scarf Trick set for Rotom-W myself.

Rotom-W @ Choice Scarf

Trait: Levitate

EVs: I would test to see which ones work best for you. Start with 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 HP and work from there.

Modest (+SAtk, -Atk) or Timid (+Spd, -Atk) Nature

- Thunderbolt / Volt Switch (great for scouting plus STAB)

- Hydro Pump

- Will-O-Wisp

- Trick

[wraith89]

I am probably not in any authority to say anything, since I have not battled in a long time. I do not even believe I have touched PO in... almost one year!

I have used Cloyster a lot as my utility spinner, but the problem with Cloyster is its awful Special defence, which is easily exploited by many spinblockers such as Gengar or Jellicent. At least Cloyster is able to defeat most spinners one on one though... and differentiates from some by being able to lay down Spikes and Toxic Spikes... well, asides from Forretress. Seeing as you have Ferrothorn with entry hazards, I do not believe Spikes are necessary anyways. However, most people expect the scary sweeper Cloyster instead so most would not be too hasty in bringing in a frail spinblocker or the likes.

I would suggest Tentacruel with Rain Dish if you needed a bulky utility spinner, as it has access to Toxic Spikes, can spin, has incredible Special Defence, base 100 speed, great typing that allows it to absorb Toxic Spikes just by switching in, benefits from rain by recovering every turn, and actually has Scald to help its physical defence. That is... if you want to... Cloyster is still a fine choice.

Another problem we have is Gliscor with the usual 252 Atk/252 Speed spread. You say you have not used it to its fullest... maybe because it was more meant to fulfill a support role of some kind rather than a standalone sweeper. That's usually fine on a Swords Dance set upper, but Gliscor is known for its bulk, and I believe Gliscor would appreciate its EVs placed in its defences since it can already raise its attack with Swords Dance and the likes. A quick glance at Smogon shows an Impish build with 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spe EVs, but I don't know why that is the case. 72 speed does hit 244 speed on neutral, but I would aim higher because everything tries to outpace 244. Maybe around 247ish or something. If you want to keep that moveset though, you may, as I am not sure what else it should be doing at this point. You can consider Taunt if Stall completely ruins you: Taunt allows Gliscor to be a stallbreaker of some kind.

I will have to look at this team more to even rate it: with Tbird missing in action this is difficult

If you don't mind... I am adding pictures on original post to make it easier for me to tell what is on your team. I need visuals!

Your team looks good in the long run though. How has battles been?

Just something off-topic: Have you tried Volcarona in the rain? It is really weird, and yet it works because Volcarona is able to learn Hurricane and still does decent damage with Fire Blast, despite the rain. I have only seen it once, though, and it was not mine. But I am thinking it can be quite an asset.

I have had a lot of success with Dragonite in the rain, with its scary STAB Hurricane and a complementary Thunder to go alongside it. It is a shame they banned Swift Swim alongside Drizzle, or else I would have suggested Kingdra, Kabutops, Omastar or Ludicolo and the rest. Rain is incredibly broken though, so I am not surprised.

[TeamRocketCollector]

I forgot all about Tentacruel and Dragonite. That is a powerful Dragonite. Would I be wrong in assuming this was its set? I saw three of its moves and watched its speed, so I'm guessing you made it specialize in speed and special attack with the added bonus of Life Orb. Plus I'm going on a limb here saying that the fourth move was Aqua Jet for rain and life orb boosted priority. Either that, or Surf or Roost. I don't think it would have Marvel Scale seeing as how it is a useless ability when sided with Life Orb.

Dragonite (M) @ Life Orb

Trait: Inner Focus

EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd

Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)

- Aqua Jet

- Thunder

- Hurricane

- Outrage

But back on topic, I highly recommend taking his advice on the Tentacruel. It is a far better alternative than Cloyster unless you are interested in the Ice Shard's priority, but Tentacruel has a lot more benefits to offer with the addition of Rapid Spin. I would try a set like this:

Tentacruel (F) @ Toxic Orb

Trait: Rain Dish

EVs: 4 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd

Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)

- Rapid Spin

- Scald

- Ice Beam

- Sludge Bomb

Rapid Spin to solve your problems, high bulk in Special Defense leaves no need to invest the nature benefit into Special Defense (unless you care more about the Special Defense, in which case I would recommend a Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)) so I go with a Timid (+Spd, -Atk). Scald is for great rain boosted stab with burn (30%) bonus. Ice Beam is for those pesky dragons so commonly found and may freeze opponents if you are lucky. Sludge Bomb is good for poison stab with 30% chance of poison. Although, I admit, this is a gimmicky set because I have no idea how well it works. I've seen Tentacruel used but I have never used it myself. Feel free to edit it or change it entirely if you like.

Edit: Thank you wraith89 for monitoring this. You may not have battled in a while, but you still are more of an expert on team building than I am. I am sure you will be of more help to him than I have been.

[wraith89]

This was long time ago when Gen V came out the first time... hence the Japanese names and the non-viewable Pokemon in the replays. Most of the Pokemon that was sent out against Dragonite was slow... it was Eelektross, Gigalith, and Carracosta

So back then, I custom tailored my stormy weather Dragonite and it looked like this:

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Josun (Dragonite) (F) @ Life Orb

Trait: Multiscale

EVs: 72 Atk / 240 SAtk / 196 Spd

Rash Nature (+SAtk, -SDef)

- Dragon Dance

- Hurricane

- Thunder

- Outrage

Speed hits 245 speed, to outpace 244ers who want to outpace max speed Tyranitar. After a single Dragon Dance, Dragonite OHKOs bulky Zapdos with Outrage after Stealth Rocks damage (which is why I put the Attack EVs like that), because that thing would wall Hurricane and Thunder otherwise (particularly the Lightningrod versions). The rest of the EVs went to Special Attack. I guess max SpA and Speed would be more conventional, but mine had that purpose of not being walled by Zapdos. Note that it wears off much too quickly, so Roost can be placed wherever wanted, and water moves like Surf is always welcome. Then there's also Draco Meteor or Dragon Pulse as alternatives, and you can move the Attack to SpA if no physical moves are ever used. This was just how I played though since I hate being walled. Do people really run Aqua Jet on Dragonite? That is interesting...

Now I will dig up my old Tentacruel...

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Kraken (Tentacruel) (F) @ Black Sludge

Trait: Rain Dish

EVs: 120 HP / 136 Def / 16 SAtk / 60 SDef / 176 Spd

Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)

- Rapid Spin

- Toxic Spikes

- Hex

- Scald

Wait, forget my Tentacruel EV layout, as I have no idea why I made it that way and I forgot the actual reasoning for this layout... so I need to update that, as this was the first time I was using it when PO first implemented Gen V. For now, maybe it should look more like:

252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpDef Calm

That allows Tentacruel to survive 2 Close Combats from Infernape... though this was 4th Gen standard. 5th gen is much more offensive, and Smogon seems to say:

252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Speed Bold

I find the 16 speed odd, as that hits 240 speed, which is not outpacing anything notable but neutral base 70 max speeders. It's still slower than Jolly Tyranitar, so watch out. The defence seems to imply the Fighters of this gen are hitting much too hard, specifically Conkeldurr and the likes. So actually, let's make a new set:

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Kraken (Tentacruel) (F) @ Black Sludge

Trait: Rain Dish / Liquid Ooze

EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spd

Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)

- Rapid Spin

- Toxic Spikes / Toxic

- Protect / Giga Drain / Ice Beam / Sludge Bomb

- Scald

You see, I had Hex because Ghosts always switched in to block Rapid Spin, and they were at a high chance of being status'd by the likes of Scald or Toxic Spikes, hence making Hex into a 200 base power attack to fight against them. That was my logic then, but I don't know how well that worked then. Anyways, Tentacruel is part Poison, allowing Black Sludge to be of great asset for recovery and messing up Tricksters. Scald for the burn rate + STAB is always useful, and what would Tentacruel be without Rapid Spin and the awfully useful Toxic Spikes? Protect is beautiful for allowing an extra turn of recovery and stalling, but remember it can also turn against you if the foe likes to set up. There are other options for that slot with Protect: feel free to choose one. Giga Drain steals HP, Ice Beam eats a lot of other Pokemon weak to Ice, and Sludge Bomb is a more powerful STAB option, but it does not provide much coverage. You can also opt for Liquid Ooze as your ability, as it trolls on Ferrothorn's Leech Seed and Conkeldurr's Drain Punch. Rain Dish is more consistent, however, on your rain team.

Remember this is a utility Pokemon: it was not really meant to be an offensive one in your team (that is if you choose to use Tentacruel)... you can always just base the team on helping Cloyster sweep foes

[TeamRocketCollector]

Would speed come in handy on Tentacruel so it can set up Toxic Spikes (at least one layer)?

[wraith89]

Regardless of speed, Tentacruel can find an opportunity to set up Toxic Spikes if it either forces a switch or walls the other Pokemon, like a Choice Banded Scizor. It has 236 Speed when uninvested, which is pretty good and only requires a minimal investment in speed if it wants to beat Jolly Tyranitar (32 EVs), but I think in this gen it would really appreciate the bulk. I'm really tired of things hitting too hard, even when resisted. Some Special Defence might be good, I believe, but Tentacruel's Special Defence hits 286 when uninvested, and that is still quite impressive. But if one wants speed, go ahead, but I think it is a lost cause on something that needs bulk, and has only 100 base speed, which would mean if it maxes it, it would tie with things like Salamence and Volcarona at best. Positive speed + 176 EVs outpaces positive natured base 90 speeders like Lucario, Positive speed + 216 EVs outpaces positive base 95ers like Gliscor. Gliscor is a key opponent most people want to outpace, BUT most Gliscors these days do not invest much speed and focus on their defence instead unless it is a straight out offensive Gliscor.

Oh yes, and Multiscale is not useless on Life Orb Dragonite, only because the initial hit that could be from a faster opponent may be a lethal Stone Edge, or worse, Ice Beam, so it is not that bad of a choice, unless one needs to set up and feels like that Togekiss's Air Slash is going to flinch. I used to run Superpower on that Dragonite to hurt Blissey and Snorlax hard, but it did not always work without proper support, and it made me forgo Multiscale due to its incompatibility. But that is always an option, and Inner Focus is not bad either.

Edited April 18, 2012 by wraith89

[Sukotto50]

Thank you both very much for all the advice. I have considered using Tentacruel, but am more than willing to give it a try on my team. As for Dragonite, I would like to give it a chance, but am not sure where to fit it in. Perhaps replacing Toxicroak or Rotom? Any suggestions?

[wraith89]

Yep, go try out Tentacruel because it makes a great utility Pokemon, especially in the rain. However, Cloyster still works as a spinner, but it is more vulnerable to status such as poison and burn (the latter for cutting its attack power to half). It has a scary base physical defence of 180, which is the highest of the original RBY Pokemon.

You don't have to use Dragonite really, as it is meant to take hits such as Electric and Grass attacks (though it does not resist the former, it has 4x resistance to the latter), and act as a late game clean up Pokemon or something to breach the opponent mid-game. If you want to try it, just make it your primary sweeping Pokemon... whichever one of your Pokemon has that role, that would be the one to replace.

[PikaCHUN_101]

Here is my Tentacruel.

Nature:Calm

EVS:210 HP/4 DEF/210 SPD

Moveset:

Scald

Ice Beam / Giga Drain

Toxic Spikes / Poison Jab

Rapid Spin

If you want a Bulky Tentacruel that can hit its own type hard I would recommend Giga Drain but if your up against Dragons and Grass Types etc. Use Ice Beam.

Posion Jab because of 30% Chance of Poison.

The rest you know.