Egg PID questions...

[hunter_aran]

When I first came to this forum, I learned that if I made a pkm hatched, it would make it legal by allowing it to pass various hack checkers. I thought this was because egg PIDs cannot be checked and there is no restriction to them--that they could be any generated PID and be fine. So now, in various places I hear this talk about valid and invalid egg PIDs, meaning that egg PIDs can actually be checked. So I'm confused now and I have more questions, have looked for a few days now trying to find answers, and either couldn't find the answers or was too dumb to understand what was right in front of me. So below I'm going to list some assumptions/conclusions I've made and I'd really appreciate if someone can take the time to help validate or otherwise explain what's wrong with what I thought.

1) Egg PIDs can be any method, so any randomly generated PID in Pokesav/Pokegen will work (Though, I have heard people say it cannot be Type 1-Common NDS... why?)

2) The PID ONLY determines the gender, ability, and nature BUT the IVs are independently generated by a separate algorithm--they are NOT related to the PID.

So my conclusions are:

3) So in order to make a legal egg PID, I need to

A) Randomize the IVs, generate any PID with my desired gender, ability, and nature

B) Then go manually change the IVs to what I want so they appear to be independent from the PID

4) So actually, if the PID and IVs MATCH, it is so unlikely that it is considered illegal!

BUT!

5) I've heard all this talk about how using a RNG reporter, like the one at Smogon, one can somehow use your PKM's met date/time and figure out if your PID was really possible from the given seed... But wouldn't they need to have another in game caught PKM for reference and the EXACT date and time (which the summary only gives day and year) to figure out what the seed is and therefore if the PID is really possible? I am not a programmer, so I do not understand this very well but I hope someone can explain this part too...

6) Do anyone know yet if Gen V Egg PIDs generated the same way?

[Codr]

We know of nothing belonging to Nintendo that checks PIDs for some correlation between it and the IVs. So, I ask, why does anyone care? This is so redundant and annoying. The only thing that comes to mind is someone with OCD who just can't go on with their life with the knowledge that their data wasn't generated by the DS hardware through the Pokemon cartridge.

[Kaphotics]

1) there is no IV/PID relation, if it has one it is indicative of a generated one.

2) correct, the egg PV is set in one RNG, and the IVs are set through another after inheritance.

3) pretty much.

4) see 1, there shouldn't be a relation. Having a 32^6 chance of getting that IVPID relation is WAY too low to be "legit".

5) If you can't get the egg PID on a reasonable frame (IE below 4000 eggs) on a particular seed, it's probably hacked. Checking this is so laborious nobody does it.

6) They aren't generated the same way. There might be a relation this generation as the PID and IV inheritance is generated from the same process, as opposed to IV+Inheritance last gen.

As Codr said, it's OCD.

[Codr]

As Codr said, it's OCD.

If you agree, you should be helping to eradicate this mindset, not help it proliferate!

[Bond697]

where are these various places you're hearing this crap?

[hunter_aran]

If you agree, you should be helping to eradicate this mindset, not help it proliferate!

Well thanks for finally explaining this clearly. Again sorry for bringing this up again, I just wasn't sure. And yes it's a little OCD I agree but I just wanted to understand this better. Hopefully this thread will help more people from worrying about/wasting time on this stuff. Anyway you guys are awesome here at PP!

[hunter_aran]

where are these various places you're hearing this crap?

Actually, the main one that got to me was a post on this forum: http://projectpokemon.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-11500.html

So that's why I bothered to verify this stuff with you guys...

[Kaphotics]

If you agree, you should be helping to eradicate this mindset, not help it proliferate!

but I'm OCD as well!

Just trying to help out with super legality

If you can do a great hackjob, why not do a perfect hackjob?

[Codr]

If you can do a great hackjob, why not do a perfect hackjob?

It's perfect with a random PID.

[Kaphotics]

Yeah, a random PID is perfectly fine, it just shouldn't really be related to any algorithm.

Say if it's related to method 1...

1/32^6 = 1/(IV combos)

=1/1,073,741,824 chance to get the method 1 combo (as you already have a PID in mind)

That's your chance of getting a method 1 PIDIV. Granted there are a couple IV sets for a PID for method 1 on average (say 4... 16^8/(32^6)=4). SCV's IVPID.exe is a good illustration of this.

That makes it around a minimum of 1/268,435,456th of a chance to get a Method 1 PID on an egg.. Those odds are fishy!

[Codr]

...

You're not getting it. The PID is meaningless except to extremists that're too stubborn to realize they're being ridiculous. A random PID is fine in ALL CASES.

[Kaphotics]

You're not getting it. The PID is meaningless except to extremists that're too stubborn to realize they're being ridiculous. A random PID is fine in ALL CASES.

oh you

the world is full of extremists!

[hunter_aran]

oh you

the world is full of extremists!

LOL

[hunter_aran]

oh you

the world is full of extremists!

Sorry double post...

Anyway, geeze, let's all make up and be friends!

[Elite Four Seth]

OCD and proud of it.

Be nice to kaphotics, Codr I knew nothing when I started poking around making hacks a month ago and thanks to him I know slightly more than nothing. Even if Nintendo isn't that thorough in their legality checks, some people like to learn the nuances of the gaming code. It's the same little itch that makes you want to complete the damned pokedex.