Toffeuy

Well unless pokemon can maintain their mega evos after switching out, it will still suffer from 4x SR weakness, and that's assuming it has already mega evolved once before SR was even put up. And there might be fairy/type which resists fire type of pokemon so Heatran probably wouldn't be the only one.

Hit. The next person reckons that a large person should have to pay for two seats when boarding a plane.

At first sight I thought M Charizard X looked way better than Y, but then if you watch the , its wings are too small !!!! I hope this is just a distortion in the game sprite and not the actual design. Small wings and a large body work for I guess stuff which are intended to be cute, but not that supposedly "badass" design of the rest of its body T_TI'm not so keen on the three different versions of a pokemon yet, sometimes less is more. It seems a bit messy but maybe it won't turn out that way. Though M Charizard Y's ability seems more attractive, i'm a lot more interested in X. Regular Charizard is more of a special attacker but M Charizard X seems to be almost purely physical, it does after all get a significant attack boost and also an ability to augment that single characteristic (Source). I'm intrigued by the strategy mega evos might add to the metagame. Because you can choose when to mega evo, that can mean an instant change between stats which are beneficial for entirely different conditions. The very thing that limits Meloetta's usefulness is its inability to transform at command without using a turn, but with mega evos, this isn't the case (but this isn't entirely the same thing since Meloetta can revert back and Relic Song actually does decent damage). That means Mixed Attackers can come about without needing both decent Attack and Special Attack to begin with, since the dominance in Attack or Special Attack can switch so easily between transformations, with Charizard -> M Charizard X possibly being the perfect example. Maybe we should discuss the prospects of mega evos in terms of the controlled timing of their transformation. Source Still not sure if we could even choose when to mega evo, I wouldn't be surprised if there were a few restrictions like first turn only or full HP only, maybe even full happiness with the pokemon? (the "bond" they are talking about?)

There's really too much to consider that my head is blowing just thinking about this. On one hand you have all the advantages one type gets due to changes, then you have to consider the changes of every other single type and how abundance of use would be affected, and then whether the change in abundance would itself become an advantage, and then how this advantage would affect use, and then use back to advantage, it's like a cyclic system with random branches going out at random intervals that it's completely messing with me. There's a point I made before about the random nature of competitive players' response being the key factor, and after considering that mindblow earlier, it's become especially prevalent that it would indeed be what most affects the changes in the Gen VI metagame. Because use and type advantages themselves are directly correlated, and that type advantages aren't subject to random audience interpretation, it is again all chance; who sets the trend, how influential a trend is, etc. I hate to mention this chance thing again because we are trying to reach something conclusive but fact is what in theory may seem completely correct in practice could be absolutely wrong. For example, i'm still convinced that most Fairies would probably only be defensive threats but no-one, including me would be surprised if that wasn't the case. But despite this, i'll still make the attempt at prediction, after all, I guess the word "speculation" in the title of this thread makes up for everything I just blabbered on about. Heracross can be useful in countering the rise in steels, so I wouldn't discount him straight away, but that leads to a decrease in steels, which leads to a decease in fighting, which leads to an increase in steel and so that just brings us back to my previous point T_T I noticed that many Fighting pokemon have access to Poison Jab so that in a way may provide some leverage against Fairies. A lot of them learn Bullet Punch as well, but that move isn't really threatening unless it's by Scizor. We might be overlooking Fire's involvement in the change. Fairy -> Rise in Steel -> Rise in Fire -> Controls Fairy + Steel? Fire isn't known for its defence but being able to switch in safely on a Fairy and deal the offence it is reputed for would be excellent for wallbreaking and preventing a sweep. I don't usually have any problems dealing with pursuit when using a Psychic, considering most of them learn focus blast anyway (yes, I know what you're going to say, a few learn aura sphere though). Latios is a bit of an exception, since I always run choice on it. *Opponent sends in Tyranitar* *Uses thunderbolt to do 15% dmg anyway* Wouldn't having Ghost resist Fairies be a bit too much? Gengar would be all the more OP, it is infamous for being a glass cannon but i'm tipping that it would be able to survive a neutral fairy hit and 1HKO back with sludge bomb. That does stop fairies a bit, and maybe that's what you're getting at but then Gengar as an individual pokemon would be OP. Ah, poison, it's funny i've never looked at them that way, defensively that is. Possibly because the likes of Gengar and Venusaur have overshadowed that thought. It's interesting to note that Toxicroak may have great use in the new metagame. It has one of the more damaging Poison Jabs and it has Sucker Punch to counter Psychics. What wouldn't surprise me though, is if they decided to give most Fairies access to the move Psychic, in which case Toxicroak will cry and heal itself with dry skin ? Maybe it's just me but when thinking Fairies I think magic, and Psychic is as magic as it gets. Btw, the drama I was mentioning before was Journey to the West. It's funny that when you google translate fairy into Japanese, you get 妖精, but when you go Chinese, you get 仙女, and these two have almost opposite connotations associated with them. Lol, I did not consider that when making the ball but here's a little clue for you:

There's never going to be an absolute measure to a pokemon's strength. The whole concept of "absolute" is a mathematical one. When we're looking at a qualitative measure such as strength/usefulness/whatever you call it, there's always going to be an uncertainty, which in this case is rather large considering the details we are missing and the fact that there are varying factors. So the most appropriate idea would be to opt for the best available solution, which atm is tier classifications. Maybe it's just a matter of conflicting perspectives, you have your point and I have mine. I can tell you that indeed I would consider Aron a better pokemon than Aggron (at least in respect to competitive battling), however ridiculous you think that may be. So yes, let's jsut get over this already. Bugs, I don't think would be affected very greatly, though I do have some doubts on that since steel may rise in use. Bugs might not get a realistic advantage despite resisting poison considering there aren't many especially damaging poison moves (but that may change) nor are there many bulky bugs. Steel might suffer an overall nerf since it is more of a defensive typing and it now no longer resists ghost + dark. Maybe Togekiss can take over the para-flinch trade from Jirachi? Ghost seems like it's gaining a nice buff as the darks may be controlled by fairies. Psychics seem like they would be able to survive any environment, so I didn't think they needed a buff. They always have great coverage moves and nice stats. Maybe Psychics gain a role by shooing off poisons for fellow fairies? I mean, logically psychics and fairies seem like a nice bond right? Not so sure about poison, poison always seemed like the oddball to me. They're not really known for their offence, and they're not really known for their defence, but they seem to work quite well usually. Meh, idk. Haha, yeah, but that fletchling won't be long-lived, that was just me brushing up my PS skills after a long inactivity. I was experimenting effects and halfway through I ended up with a picture that seemed too nice to be deleted so i'm just using it as a temporary sig.

I thought you might have something to say about that, I know you don't like the idea but tiers are possibly the best way to tell how useful a pokemon is. Useful ones get used more, tiers might be a bit of an arbitrary thing (well aren't all classifications?) but the fact that people would use certain pokemon is a clear indication of their strength. There's probably no better way to assess the usefulness of a type than looking at the abundance of its use. Rather than looking at usefulness through potential, using distribution statistics provide far better supporting evidence. I know very well some pokemon in lower tiers can be an absolute game changer (I don't even remember how many of my OU teams used Pory2) but that's based on personal experience; that is, evidence from 1 person alone. And any evidence from a single person alone is never reliable, the evidence is accurate and it's valid, but in no way reliable. For the reliability factor to be accounted for, it is necessary to include the community as a whole, and that means looking at usage statistics and hence tier distribution. "Blissey, Togekiss, Clefable, both Porygons, Tauros, Miltank", to me, these pokemon aren't even in the same league as Cloyster, Mamoswine, Abomasnow, both non-Uber Kyurems and Weavile in terms of usefulness. I've played the monotype tier before, and Ice is probably one of the most threatening teams as long as your opponent isn't using fire/fighting, but normal can barely compete regardless of which type team you are versing. Normal pokemon have even worse movepools than ice. In many cases, there might be a wider movepool but it almost always lacks combinations to make effective coverage. And because normal isn't super effective against anything, there is no such thing as a STAB super effective move, and that greatly hinders its usefulness yet again. I think we're straying a little off-topic here, so as a last note let me just say: I am speculating that in Gen VI, Ice will not be the worst type.

Ice isn't even that bad, normal is the worst type. Number of ice pokemon in OU: 3 Normal in OU: 1 Ice in Ubers: 2 Normal in Ubers: 1 And ice is even super effective against 4 of the most commonly used types out there. Also, if watching dramas taught me anything, it's that 妖精 are just a bunch of human-animal hybrids who have not trained their abilities and morality enough to become a god...

Hit. The next person has a purple rayquaza as their avatar.

No don't stop T_T. Yes, that's exactly what I was saying: it's their generally better stat distribution and movepools, and that has nothing to do with the type itself, it's the pokemon. You have a point in that fairies can also counter attack with a super effective hit, but yes we'll have to see how it plays out. Perhaps this calls for an increased impact in being able to predict your opponent, like how you go for a Hydro Pump on Choiced Rotom-W because you predict a ground type to come in and take the volt switch (and then you fail miserably as they send in Jellicent). The people at Gamefreak aren't total idiots, i'm sure they would introduce at least a few things to balance it out a bit. Maybe new steel or poison moves, now to think of it, a poison priority would be a really nice idea too. It's also interesting to note that most of the time it depends on the player's decisions and their response to the implementations rather than the ideas put out themselves. The problem is that the community's response will be quite random, certain ideas will directly affect the chance, but a large part is still up to chance. If people are to firmly believe that dragons can still have the impact they did in Gen V, then fairies in that case may be OP. If no-one is to believe dragons are of any use anymore, fairies lose a significant role in the game. It's really unpredictable, one guy might make an extremely successful team using either dragons or no dragons, and as people start gaining ideas from looking at this team, they are influenced into doing the same and hence that starts a trend. In this case, it all comes down to whether the first influential team within the community will have dragons or not, and any subsequent famous teams may bring back or further diminish the role of fairies. You just seem a bit more than just skeptical on fairies, to the point that you're being cynical. Unlike dark or ghost which don't have any obvious connotations, fairies are always associated with some magic aren't they? Come on, they're fairies! Last thing i'd expect is for Tinkerbell to use its fingernails for a fairy claw on Garchomp. The word "fairy" just seems like a very light-hearted thing. I would certainly be able to imagine them being able to play a support role (fairy entry hazards rofl) or even specially defensive, but not really mercilessly destroying a dragon. If that is the case then maybe that settles the debate on being that offensive monster that is to cause trouble to every other type. I don't know but when I think fairy I picture something using light screen or reflect, not so much large scale magic which obliterates everything. At this point, I still wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't a separation but whatever, i'm not extremely against either anyway, just would prefer that there wasn't. Oh, and I probably wasn't very clear in what I said, but I was meaning base stats. And I like drama too, i'm watching a few episodes after posting this.

Hit. The next person has at least one poster on their bedroom wall.

Lol, the melodrama wraith! There's really no way for us to know the potential of a type based on type effectiveness. For example, let's talk about the offensive aspect of dragons and normals prior to Gen VI. Dragon is resisted only by steel, and Normal is resisted only by rock and steel. Based on these facts alone, you would expect dragon to only be slightly superior to normal (remember we're talking about offensive only atm). Yet, Dragon dominates Normal in sweepers and wallbreakers. It is not the type effectiveness which determines how useful a type is, it is the pokemon found within the classification. Dragons have ridiculously high attack/special attack along with speed and they have great movepools for great coverage (almost all phys dragons learn earthquake). In addition, the strongest of dragons get abilities to complement their stats/moves, Dragonite gets multiscale so it can DD to make up for its speed, Garchomp gets sand veil so it can set a sub up, Salamence gets either Intimidate or Moxie to set up DD or sweep on the spot. On the other hand, normal gets tons of HP and absolutely no defence to complement it. And while Dragons have these gamebreaking abilities, normal gets Regigigases and Slakings. On another note, while Fighting is mainly physical, I am almost certain Fairy will be special-oriented. Well at least logically that would seem to be the case, when you think fairies don't you just think magic? If that's true, then nevermind Azumarill. And about the OU/Uber thing, that was an analogy with respect to the rules you are bound to when competing online. Yes, it has nothing to do with official Nintendo stuff but that wasn't the point, it was just to provide an insight into the nature of knowingly giving your opponent a handicap. EDIT: About the Blaziken and Rhyperior, i'm too lazy to do it myself, but if you use damage calculator i'm almost sure it'd be normal for even a regular Blaziken to pull that off. Blaziken's special attack is twice the special defence of Rhyperior, and it also gets a STAB on that 140 BP Overheat.

Miss. The next person uses Hotmail.

Hit. The next person has played at least 15 different pokemon console games.

On the topic of types (not PKM types in this case, just the general definition of the word) of moves, I've always lamented at the fact that all but one priority move is physical (Vacuum Wave). I really think they would introduce a few special priority moves this gen, perhaps a fairy type one along with it? I'm also expecting a greater variety in typing, a flying or ground seems to me like it would be a sweet addition. They would provide some measures against pokemon such as Blaziken which has speed boost and atm only has aqua jet for that purpose. And about both parties requiring to have a mega, that seems very impractical. I can imagine the mess that would cause in both gameplay and online, does that mean half the time the mega stones are just a useless waste of an item space, or are there going to have to be extra classifications in battle types, etc.? Why not just stick to a simple use it or not scenario? It's like choosing to use an OU pokemon (well, other than a few such as ferrothorn) in Ubers. In most cases, they don't compete. And so, in most battles, they are never used. It's that simple. If it's not good enough, don't use it. If choosing not to mega evolve gives you a disadvantage against someone who does use it, then choose to mega evolve. It's at the player's fault that they would choose to give a handicap to their opponent. There's always going to be someone who likes the underdog label and so if it suits them, then just choose not to mega evolve, as long as they don't force everyone else to go along with them.

At the rate things are going, it seems to me like mega evolutions are going to extend to a large number of pokemon. Details have only confirmed that not all pokemon can mega evolve, but the fact that they are reviving pokemon which have been rarely ever used as well as the ones which are already good or even broken in the current metagame suggests to me that there is plenty more to come for the little guys in between with medium strength/usefulness. Weak + Medium + Strong kinda covers a large range of pokemon don't ya think? I really don't see a need to separate of Mega/Non-Mega. Players and their opponents alike will have equal advantages in being able to access mega evolved pokemon. Overall, all pokemon will probably get stronger (well, let's say most), but their relative strength shouldn't be greatly changed. The only thing i'm worried about is the pokemon in Ubers. If many ubers also get mega evolutions then this theory of relative usefulness remains true. However, instinct tells me that not many ubers will be getting mega evolutions, and in this case, the usefulness of ubers may cross with the mega evolved OU pokemon and cause a bit of a dilemma in terms of being able to predict what may happen. What many people seem to be forgetting is that mega evolutions have a conditional aspect. I remember reading that it could only be used once in battle, though i'm not sure whether that refers to per pokemon or all pokemon within a single match. They may get some nifty upgrades but regardless of which of the two previously mentioned statements are true, upon switching out, that same pokemon will definitely be unable to mega evolve again. If the opponent sends in something which the pokemon cannot defeat (which seems likely considering defending types are increasing in coverage due to implementation of fairy and changes to steel), the pokemon which was previously mega evolved will either have to be sacrificed or later re-summoned without the threat it once posed. Under this, it seems sweepers and walls are the most viable, but even then, the requirement to be holding a mega item makes sweepers easily outsped and revenge killed by scarf users and walls lose the luxury of a healing item such as leftovers. It is also interesting to note that a large majority of the confirmed Mega Evolutions seem to augment the offensive capabilities of the pokemon. Whether this is just by chance i'm not sure, but surely some other stats are to be sacrificed, providing some sort of balance. Until we get more information about Mega Evolutions, I think it's going to be hard to debate whether there will be a metagame split but I personally do not think/want there to be.