ParaDoX65 Posted April 3, 2011 Posted April 3, 2011 (edited) Double Trouble! Doubles, IV Generation RMT [iCON]162[/iCON]Introduction: Hello Project Pokemon! Today, I have a new team that I would like to show you, one that I have been working with for quite some time. Unfortunately, I have come to a road block and am posting here for some assistance. Designed for the Wi-Fi environment, specifically Pokemon Battle Revolution, this team involves awesome Pokemon and familiar strategies for a completely fantastic result. Before I begin, I would like to take a moment to go over the rules of the Wi-Fi environment. As many players know, Wi-Fi is completely different than battling using a battle simulator like Pokemon Online. Battles aren’t separated by tier and very few rules are put in place. I myself have encountered many teams who take advantage of the lack of rules. (6 Dark Voiding Darkrais anyone?) [iCON]162[/iCON]Wi-Fi Rules: Pokemon: Singles Bring six, pick three Doubles Bring six, pick four All Pokemon are set to Lv. 50 for the duration of the battle. No tier separation so ANY POKEMON IS ALLOWED! (As long as it is passes the legitimacy test) Other rules they don't follow >.> No Item clause No Sleep clause No Species clause No Evasion clause No OHKO clause Basically, anything goes. The matches themselves are extremely fast paced. Very little switching takes place, when compared to standard play. Entry hazards are usually a waste. The matches progress so quickly that they have little to no use. This allows players to use and abuse focus sashes to their heart’s content. In doubles play, I have also found that players don’t equip Choice Items (Band, Scarf, or Specs) or Life Orb nearly as much as standard play. They instead opt for sashes or resistance berries. E.g. Tyranitar @ Chople berry , Scizor @ Occa Berry. P.S. On another note, double battles have a few differences from single battles. Recently, despite playing doubles for a few years, I have discovered that multi hit moves, like surf and heat wave, have 75% of their original power. This means, that many attacks that hit harshly in singles might be easier to handle in singles. They do have a feature similar to the team preview found in B/W. Before each battle, players are allowed to view each other’s team and make their Pokemon choice accordingly. So in the spirit of Wi-Fi, I shall give you my team, preview style. I ask that you write down your initial assumptions of the team; what the goal of the team is (Hail, Rain,Trick Room, etc.) and the potential threats you can expect to see during the match. Write them down now, before you scroll down further. [iCON]162[/iCON]Team Preview (In no particular order) [animsprite]485[/animsprite] [animsprite]421[/animsprite] [animsprite]103[/animsprite] [animsprite]275[/animsprite] [animsprite]257[/animsprite] [animsprite]192[/animsprite] If you are looking at this RMT, if you could post your initial impressions, even if you don't plan to rate. Be honest now...it's important for me to see what battlers expect when they see my team. [iCON]162[/iCON]The Team...In Depth Welcome to the Conservatory! The Sun Room EDITS MADE: April 3, 2011: Team posted, small changes made to Sunflora's set. Added Tbird's recommended movesets to suggestions as well as a possible Blaziken set. April 4, 2011: Added more to the Suggestions section. Working on viable Shiftry and Blaziken sets. April 5, 2011: Added chosen Shiftry and Blaziken sets to Suggestions. Later, added Shiftry and Blaziken to team. January 17, 2012: Exeggutor, Cherrim, and Shiftry updated. Added Jumpluff to alternates Almost a year since posting this team, I have discovered new information. (at least I didn’t know it…) Multi hit moves hit much lighter in doubles, meaning that Heat Waves, Surfs, and other multi hit moves will be 25% less powerful. Due to this aspect of doubles that I didn’t take into account, I needed to restructure some of my EV spreads. [iCON]162[/iCON]Purpose for making this team: I wanted to do things a little different this time. With other teams in the past, the team preview has been my downfall. My opponent knew what I was going to do before the battle even started. For example, if you see something like Solrock with some slow, powerful sweepers, it’s safe to assume it’s a Trick Room team. This team, with any luck, is supposed to look like a simple Sunny Day team. Threats like Tangrowth, Exeggutor, and the presence of Cherrim give that away. There is, however, a secret aspect to this team, letting me get the jump on those who don't suspect it. [iCON]162[/iCON]The Goal: This team is meant to operate in Trick Room as well as Sunny Day, hopefully allowing me to surprise my opponent and wipe them out before they even knew what hit them. [iCON]162[/iCON]Other Information: EVs are designed for play at Lv. 50. Essentially, eight EVs change a stat. All damage calculations are done at Lv. 50 using Smogon’s Damage Calculator. (Credits to Smogon) Assume the typical IV spread for Trick Room Pokemon unless otherwise stated. All IVs are 31 except for speed, which will be zero. Underneath the EV section, I will put a "Current Stat" and a "Base Stat" section showing the stats the Pokemon has when running the chosen EV set. (It always helps me think of and visualize the possibilities.) The order of the stats will be HP/Atk/Def/SAtk/SDef/Spd Due to the "Bring six, pick four" rule, this team might be difficult to rate as there are many combination of Pokemon that I could bring to the battle. For the sake of this RMT, please assume that I will bring the following. Lead 1 (Exeggutor)----Lead 2 (Cherrim) Sweeper (Physical)----Sweeper 2(Special) Although there are numerous other choices I could make, this would give the most balanced coverage. [iCON]162[/iCON]The Team : [iCON]103[/iCON]Coco-NUT [animsprite]103[/animsprite] Exeggutor @ Focus Sash Trait: Chlorophyll EVs: 244 HP / 52 Atk / 84 Def / 4 SAtk / 124 SDef Base Stats: 95-95-85-125-65-55 Current Stats: 201-134-116-146-101-54 (Brave) / 201-122-116-160-101-54 (Quiet) Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd) / Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd) - Wood Hammer / Leaf Storm - Trick Room - Protect - Explosion [animsprite]103[/animsprite] Exeggutor @ Focus Sash Trait: Chlorophyll EVs: 164 HP / 196 Atk / 148 Def Base Stats: 95-95-85-125-65-55 Current Stats: 191-154-124-145-85-54 Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd) - Wood Hammer - Trick Room - Protect - Explosion This palm tree is certainly one of the most frightening things to see when your on a tropical vacation. Multiple heads...those gleaming eyes...*shudders*. Trick Room Lead! \O.O/ Trick Room is there as it is the crux of my strategy. Protect is there to keep Fake Out leads at bay. (I once met a team with two of these leads. After breaking my sash, they wiped to floor with me. ;_; )Wood hammer hits Tyranitar awfully hard. He would otherwise spoil my fun. Explosion takes care of the other weather leads. (I opted for physical Exeggutor because of his partner, Cherrim, and her ability. Flower Gift boosts attack and special defense of both herself and her ally by one click when it’s sunny.) His attacking options also play a vital role in my team. Both will take out Exeggutor from the battle, allowing a sweeper to come in next turn, untouched and ready to battle. Exeggutor with current EVs +1 (Flower Gift) vs. Wood Hammer @ Tyranitar Adamant 4/0 > 136.4% - 161.4% Explosion @ Tyranitar Adamant 4/0 > 94.3% - 111.4% Explosion @ Hippowdon Impish 252/152 > 117.2% - 138.1% Explosion @ Kyogre Timid 4/0 > 223.9% - 263.6% Explosion @ Groudon Impish 252/252 > 100% - 117.9% I know what you’re thinking…what is he doing with all those defensive EVs when he has a Focus Sash! :bidoof: There is a specific purpose to these EVs. I’ve always hated having my focus sasher fall to weather conditions and fail to complete his task. With the current EVs, I can take super effective attacks from each one, bar Abomasnow, and have enough health leftover to survive a turn of harmful weather conditions. (191 HP takes 11 damage from weather.) Let me do some damage calculations for you. Tyranitar: Adamant 252 Crunch @ Exeggutor Brave 164/148 > 78.5% - 92.1% Hippowdon: Adamant 252 Ice Fang @ Exeggutor Brave 164/148 > 37.7% - 45% Blizzard from Abomasnow is not applicable because of Exeggutor’s low SDef. It would have taken too many EVs for him to withstand it. I was experimenting with another spread of 244 HP/ 84 Def / 180 SDef with a Sassy nature, but that only gave me a slim chance of surviving with hail damage. I decided to loose against Aboma and let Heatran take over instead. The focus sash is a fail safe in case I miss predict or someone decides to take a bite out of the Exeggutor. Scizor, for example, might be tempted to take advantage of Exeggutor's 4X bug weakness. Exeggutor is…my Trick Room Lead! Surprise! He’s necessary getting this team rolling. Trick Room is for obvious reasons. Protect is the bread and butter of doubles teams, letting me scout out Fake Out. Explosion is gets Exeggutor off the field while leaving a dent in my opponent. Cherrim’s flower gift really helps with this. Wood Hammer and Leaf Storm are both viable, each with their boosting nature, and can take out other weather inducers. The choice between them is a little more complicated. Exeggutor’s EVs got a huge revamp. With the new EV’s, He can still take attacks from the weather inducers, as you will see in the calculations below. Brave nature and wood hammer works in tandem with Cherrim’s Flower Gift. The unfortunate thing is that now with this EV spread, he can’t OHKO Hippowdon. Quiet nature and leaf storm work better, but the drop in explosion’s power (with double’s dynamics) is undesirable. So now it is a decision between a more powerful explosion, and the ability to take out weather inducers. HOWEVER, the new EVs give me a great advantage against Abomasnow, whom I would have lost to with the former EV set. I can survive a Blizzard now, with enough HP left to take one turn of Hail. The same applies with the Tyranitar and Hippowdon. I can take a supereffective attack from either of them with enough HP to spare. I know what you’re thinking…what is he doing with all those defensive EVs when he has a Focus Sash! :bidoof: Focus Sash is extra insurance, letting me take an unexpected and/or critical hit. It is necessary to get the Trick Room up. If not, then I am like a Magikarp out of water, helpless. If it’s needed, Shiftry can provide Fake Out support when the odds are not in my favor. (I predict two heat wave spammers, etc.) Exeggutor with current EVs +1 Atk (Flower Gift) vs. Updated with new EV’s + a few new calculations Brave Wood Hammer @ Tyranitar Adamant 252/0 > 101.4% - 119.8% Brave Explosion @ Hippowdon Impish 252/152 > 76.3% - 90.2% Quiet Leaf Storm @ Tyranitar Adamant 252/0 > 102.4% - 121.7% Quiet Leaf Storm @ Hippowdon Impish 252/104 > 111.6% - 132.1% Weather Inducers vs Exeggutor: Tyranitar: Adamant 252 Crunch @ Exeggutor 244/84 > 78.6% - 93.5% Hippowdon: Adamant 252 Crunch @ Exeggutor 244/84 > 46.8% - 55.7% Abomasnow: Modest 252 Blizzard (AT 75% POWER) @ Exeggutor 244/124 > 78.6% - 93.5% [iCON]162[/iCON]How does it aid to the deceit? Exeggutor is often seen on Sunny Day teams. With Cherrim in the mix, and his ability Chlorophyll, other players might think that he will be a sweeper rather than a Trick Room supporter. Especially with that scary 125 base SAtk stat. [iCON]421[/iCON]The Bait [animsprite]421[/animsprite] Cherrim @ Iron Ball Trait: Flower Gift EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 SDef Base Stats: 70-60-70-87-78-85 Current Stats: 177-80-126-107-106-81 (40 Spd with Iron Ball) Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd) - Protect - Sunny Day - Helping Hand - Safeguard / Seed Bomb / Energy Ball What is a Sunny Day team without a happily dancing Cherrim! I’m sure many of you are shouting “TAUNT BAIT” right about now. Yes, she is taunt bait, but if played correctly, she can set up and be out of the match before anyone gets a chance to do so, while drawing attention away from Exeggutor. Just imagine that happy little face, running around the battle field with a target painted on her forehead. Tempting isn't it... Protect and Sunny Day are necessary for my lead strategy. Helping Hand can boost her partner’s attack when they have an opportunity to score a critical KO. Safeguard could prevent any harmful status. It sounds like the best option, especially with Dark Void everywhere you look. Seed Bomb and Energy ball offer a way for her to fight back. In my most recent battles, I’ve found players completely ignoring her. Seeing as how she can’t do anything offensively, I can understand why. Seed bomb is slightly more powerful with her ability, but Energy Ball is for times when the skies aren’t sunny. Just like Exeggutor, Cherrim is EVs are very detailed. They allow her to take any manner of priority attack available. Since she will be working under Trick Room conditions, and will most likely be moving first, this is the best way to use her Cherrim Relaxed 252/196: Scizor Adamant 252 Life Orb +2 Technician Bullet Punch > 78.9% - 93.1% Weavile Adamant 252 +2 Ice Shard > 76.6% - 90.3% Arceus Adamant 252 +2 Extremespeed > 76% - 89.7% All of these calculations allow for Cherrim to survive with enough health for one turn of harmful weather. Essentially, Cherrim is INVINCIBLE! The rest of the EVs are put into SDef for lack of a better place. They aren’t really doing much there so I might shift more to HP and Def in order to survive some more attacks. (Especially from those slower than her. Rhyperior, a common Trick Room sweeper, can OHKO with Megahorn) I might put them into her attacking stat if I opt for a stab move. Since Cherrim has base 85 Spd, she needs a little help to be slow enough to work in Trick Room. Iron Ball takes care of that, dropping her speed by half, down to 40 to be exact, making her slower than Exeggutor. This way, she can set up Sunny Day before he explodes. [iCON]162[/iCON]How does it aid in the deceit? Cherrim presence acts as red flag. When you see her, you know the sun is coming, with powerful physical attackers who would love to take advantage of her ability. [iCON]162[/iCON]How do these leads work? Let me explain: Their goal is to set up Trick Room and Sunny Day in the first few turns so that the sweepers can come out and sweep. They also need to remove themselves from the battle as fast as possible, once their job is done, so that the sweepers can get into the battle, unscathed, with enough turns of Trick Room and Sun to finish the battle They also have the task of eliminating any harmful weather conditions and inducers from spoiling the sweep. Here are a couple of scenarios, showing their prowess. [iCON]248[/iCON] Example Scenario (Sand) [animsprite]248[/animsprite] & [animsprite]485[/animsprite] [animsprite]103[/animsprite] & [animsprite]421[/animsprite] Turn 1 A sandstorm is whipped up by Tyranitar’s Sand Stream! Cherrim used Protect! Cherrim protected itself. Heatran used Taunt, but Cherrim protected itself. Tyranitar used Crunch, Exeggutor lost approximately 92% of its health Exeggutor used Trick Room! It twisted the dimensions in the Coliseum! Exeggutor and Cherrim are buffeted by the Sandstorm! * 4 Turns of Trick Room remaining * Turn 2 [animsprite]248[/animsprite] & [animsprite]485[/animsprite] [animsprite]103[/animsprite] & [animsprite]421[/animsprite] ^ @ approximately 1% health Cherrim used Sunny Day! The Sun's rays intensified! Cherrim Transformed! < Flower Gift Exeggutor used Wood Hammer! Tyranitar was knocked out! Exeggutor went down due to recoil < Remember, Speed doesn't chance until the turn after Sunny Day was used. Heatran used Heat Wave! Cherrim was knocked out! * 3 Turns of Trick Room remaining * * 4 Turns of sun remaining * [iCON]460[/iCON]Example Scenario (Hail) [animsprite]460[/animsprite] & [animsprite]461[/animsprite] [animsprite]103[/animsprite] & [animsprite]421[/animsprite] Turn 1 A hailstorm is whipped up by Abomasnow’s Snow Warning! Cherrim used Protect! Cherrim protected itself. Weavile used Fake Out, but Cherrim protected itself. Abomasnow used Blizzard! Exeggutor lost 93% of its health and hung on with its Focus Sash! Exeggutor used Trick Room! It twisted the dimensions in the Coliseum! Exeggutor and Cherrim are buffeted by the hail!. * 4 Turns of Trick Room remaining * Turn 2 [animsprite]460[/animsprite] & [animsprite]461[/animsprite] [animsprite]103[/animsprite] & [animsprite]421[/animsprite] Weavile used Ice Shard! Exeggutor goes down. Cherrim used Sunny Day! The Sun's rays have suddenly intensified! Cherrim Transformed! Flower Gift Abomasnow used Blizzard, Cherrim looses 69% of its health! Heatran is sent out! * 3 Turns of Trick Room remaining * * 4 Turns of sun remaining * [iCON]382[/iCON] Example Scenario (Rain) [animsprite]382[/animsprite] & [animsprite]272[/animsprite] [animsprite]103[/animsprite] & [animsprite]421[/animsprite] Turn 1 A rainstorm started because of Kyogre's Drizzle! Cherrim used Protect! Cherrim protected itself. Ludicolo used Fake Out, but Cherrim protected itself. Kyogre used Ice Beam, Exeggutor lost 92% of its health and hung on using its Focus Sash Exeggutor used Trick Room! It twisted the dimensions in the Coliseum * 4 Turns of Trick Room remaining * Turn 2 [animsprite]382[/animsprite] & [animsprite]272[/animsprite] [animsprite]103[/animsprite] & [animsprite]421[/animsprite] ^ @ 8% health Cherrim used Sunny Day! The Sun's rays intensified! Cherrim Transformed! < Flower Gift Exeggutor used Explosion! Kyogre and Ludicolo were knocked out! Exeggutor and Cherrim went down as well! * 3 Turns of Trick Room remaining * * 4 Turns of sun remaining * These are the best case scenarios as there are plenty of places where things could go wrong. Blizzard can break through protect, taking out Cherrim. Priority attacks will target Exeggutor once it has a small amount of health remaining, preventing Explosion. A weather inducer could come in AFTER I set up Sunny Day. They could stall with protect. OR my strategy could fail all together. You can only prepare for so much… Anyway, on to the sweepers! [iCON]192[/iCON]Sun Flower? SOLAR POWAH! [animsprite]192[/animsprite] Sunflora @ Life Orb / Sitrus Berry Trait: Solar Power EVs: 148 HP / 156 Def / 204 SAtk IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/2 < Hidden Power Ice 70 Base Stats: 75-75-55-105-85-30 Current Stats: 169-95-95-166-105-32 Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd) - Earth Power - Protect / Encore / Helping Hand - Hidden Power [ice] - SolarBeam Sunflora is really the one who spurred the creation of this team. In the right conditions, she is a powerhouse. Solarbeam is a wonderful stab option works well under the sun. Earth power and Hidden Power Ice make up for lost coverage. Protect is there to keep priority attacks from ruining my fun. (This lets my partner take care of the threat without losing Sunflora) I imagine some of you are wondering why I'm not running Hidden Power Fire on her. The reason being that I don't want to be completely walled by dragon types like Salamence and Garchomp. Ice + Ground gives nice coverage alongside Solarbeam. Protect is questionable though. Every turn that Sunflora is in the sun, she loses 1/8 of her health, regardless of weather she attacked or not (thanks to Solar Power). Encore might allow me to catch someone trying to boost and give another opportunity to sweep, but I lose protection from priority attacks. Helping hand might be better than the earlier two. It can give a boost to my partner. Her EVs are also specialized. The current set up allow her to take an Ice Shard from Jolly max attack Mamoswine and have enough HP left to survive one turn of Solar Power and Life Orb.(At 169 HP, she gets 16 damage from Life Orb.) Her SPAtk is somewhat lower, but I haven't found an KO's that may be missed without max. Sitrus berry is another option, restoring 25% of her health. I am unsure of the dynamics though. (When it would be used, right after she is hit with an attack? or when health is below a certain threshold.) [iCON]162[/iCON]How does it aid in the deceit? Sunflora really doesn't aid in the deception. She is the weakest link. Her speed is so low that she has trouble using Chlorophyll, so many people opt for her second ability, Solar Power, and put her in a Trick Room environment. Those who don't know her potential could be fooled, but to those who have dealt with her will know something is going on. [iCON]485[/iCON]FireBug [animsprite]485[/animsprite] Heatran @ Shuca Berry Trait: Flash Fire EVs: 176 HP / 80 Def / 252 SAtk Base Stats: 91-90-106-130-106-77 Current Stats: 188-110-136-200-126-73 Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd) - Eruption / Heat Wave - Earth Power / Solar Beam - Protect - Dragon Pulse / Solar Beam Flash Fire Eruption Madness! Heatran is another key member in the team. Pounding away with powerful Eruptions, nothing can stand in his way. He also deters any fire attacks *coughheatwavecough* for fear of activating Flash Fire. The move set has some slashes. Eruption is the best stab available and will wipe anything off the map although Heat Wave will give me a consistent stab option, unaffected by his dropping HP. Earth Power and Dragon Pulse are there for coverage although Solar Beam can be used to the same effect. I would just hate to be walled by other Heatran if I replace Earth Power, and Dragon types if I replace Dragon Pulse. So it gets the secondary slash. Protect is to avoid obvious attacks towards Heatran, either those from my opponent or Earthquake from Tangrowth. The EVs are spread for bulk and the maximum amount of power. 176/80 with Shuca Berry lets me survive an Earthquake from the likes of Jolly Garchomp and Mamoswine, as long as they don't use Life Orb. (Remember, most of the time they opt for sashes and berries.) It could still use some more refining so any suggestions are welcome. [iCON]162[/iCON]How does it aid in the deceit? In all my time on Wi-Fi, I've only seen one other Trick Room Heatran. Since he is most often seen running Choice Scarf or resistance berries, many won't suspect a Trick Room variety. [iCON]257[/iCON]Awesome Fiery Chicken of Doom! [animsprite]257[/animsprite] Blaziken @ Life Orb Trait: Blaze EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/2 Base Stats: 80-120-70-110-70-80 Current Stats: 155-172-90-178-91-77 Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd) - Heat Wave - Superpower - Thunderpunch / Rock Slide - Hidden Power Ice With amazing offensive stats and decent speed, Blaziken can easily wipe the floor with unprepared teams. Heat Wave is awesome, hitting both of the opponent's Pokemon. It also gets a substantial boost from the sun. Superpower provides nice coverage and secondary STAB. Thunderpunch and Hidden Power Ice round out the type coverage options by hitting those who resist the Fire / Fighting combination. (Gyarados, Flying Dragons) Rock Slide is another option for hitting flying types as it has the same power but can hit both of the enemy's and has a small chance for flinch. The problem is it won't hit Gyarados hard enough after Intimidate. The EVs are simple on this set. Max Atk and SAtk form massive damage output. The rest goes in SDef. [iCON]162[/iCON]How does it aid in the deceit? With base 80 Spd, Blaziken is often seen running speedier sets. Choice Scarf and Agility come to mind. Thankfully, his speed stat still allows him to get low enough for Trick Room. By acting as a "Speedy Pokemon", he can help me draw my opponents away from the idea of Trick Room. [iCON]275[/iCON]The Wicked Willow [animsprite]275[/animsprite] Shiftry @ Life Orb Trait: Early Bird EVs: 84 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 164 SAtk / 4 SDef Base Stats: 90-100-60-90-60-80 Current Stats: 176-167-81-131-81-76 Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd) - Sucker Punch - Low Kick - Leaf Storm / Solar Beam - Fake Out / Explosion Shiftry is amazing in the sun. His great attack stats and ability allow him to cause some serious problems. In this situation, Shiftry takes on a different role, that of a Trick Room Sweeper. Base 80 speed still allows him to function in this environment. Sucker Punch is great as it allows him to circumvent the skewed priority within Trick Room and strike with +1 priority. With prediction, it will become his main damaging move. Low Kick gives nice coverage along side Sucker Punch. This way he can take on Steel types successfully. Leaf Storm lets him attack on the other side of the spectrum and demolish anything weak to it although Solar Beam can be used to take advantage of the sunny conditions. Fake Out lets him support Exeggutor on the first crucial teams of the match. When things look rough, Shiftry can put one out of commission and allow Exeggutor a chance to set up. Explosion, however, lets him go out with a bang. The EVs operate with a specific purpose in mind. Maximum Atk is there to bump up his physical attacks, after all, he will be using those most often. 84 HP and 4 Def allow him to take an Ice Shard from Jolly Life Orb and still have enough health for two turns of Life Orb recoil. The rest goes into SAtk to bump up Leaf Storm. 4 EVs go into SDef as there is nowhere else where they would be useful. [iCON]162[/iCON]How does it aid in the deceit? Shiftry has a nice average speed number, 80. Although Shiftry is mainly seen abusing his ability Chlorophyll to boost his speed to high levels, 80 base speed still lets him be slow enough for Trick Room. In this team, though, he is one of the "Speedy" Pokemon that dissuades my opponents from thinking this is a Trick Room team. [iCON]162[/iCON]Former Members Hariyama: [iCON]297[/iCON]The Sponge! [animsprite]297[/animsprite] Hariyama @ Sitrus Berry / Lum Berry / or something... Trait: Thick Fat EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 124 Def / 124 SDef Base Stats: 144-120-60-40-60-50 Current Stats: 220-189-96-60-96-49 Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd) - Cross Chop - Protect / Fake Out - Fire Punch / Ice Punch - Rock Slide / Thunder Punch Hariyama, like Heatran, is another key part of this team. He adds some physical attacks to the mix, and with Thick Fat, he can take fire and ice attacks with ease, even in the sun. With a great HP stat he can soak up a couple of hits and dish out some damage before going down. His move set is pretty standard. Cross Chop for stab, Fire punch so that he can take on Bronzong and Scizor with success and use the sunny conditions to his advantage. Rock Slide lets me hit those pesky flying and fire types super effectively. Thunder punch can still be used to take out Gyarados, who otherwise walls me and knocks my attack down with intimidate. Ice Punch can take care of dragons. I'm contemplating Fake Out instead of Protect, in order to beat sleep leads like Darkrai or Smeargle, but I will lose to any other Fake Out lead as I am slower. It could also be useful in providing free turn for one of my sweepers to attack. His EVs are simpler than the rest. Max attack, balanced defenses. There are four EVs left hanging, but there is no where I can put them as they would be of no use. [iCON]162[/iCON]How does it aid in the deceit? Hariyama is another weak link in the team. His low speed can indicate Trick Room is on its way. However, his ability Thick Fat could dissuade others from that idea and instead assume he is there to soften Fire and Ice attacks aimed at the Grass Pokemon. Tangrowth [iCON]465[/iCON]Leftover Spaghetti [animsprite]465[/animsprite] Tangrowth @ Life Orb Trait: Leaf Guard EVs: 188 HP / 228 Atk / 92 Def Base Stats: 100-100-125-110-50-50 Current Stats: 199-163-157-130-70-49 Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd) - Power Whip - Earthquake / Hidden Power Fire - Protect / Sleep Powder - Rock Slide Tangrowth is great, under both the sun or Trick Room. Powerful attacks on both side of the spectrum can do serious damage to anything that opposes him. Here, though, I have him functioning as a physical sweeper. I'm still not sure on his move set yet. :\ Power whip is great for stab. Pseudo edgequake is there for coverage. Protect protects him from obvious attacks, Although sleep powder could be used to give my team a couple more turns to sweep. I might make him go mixed, in order to hit certain threats harder. (Steel types specifically) The EVs are complex, again...I don't exactly remember what they are for ^^" I think I can survive two Ice Shards from Mamoswine and still have enough health left for Life orb or something. I will check notes and update when I find something. *EVs allow for minimum Life Orb recoil with maximum health stat. (19 as opposed to 20), and yes, I can survive two Ice shards and a turn of Life Orb recoil. [iCON]162[/iCON]How does it aid in the deceit? Tangrowth is a common Sunny Day sweeper. Chlorophyll and great attacking stats make him a fearsome threat. My opponents will hopefully assume that Tangrowth in going to abuse his ability instead of using Trick Room to compensate for his speed. [iCON]162[/iCON]Alternate Members After taking part in a few battles, I begin to get bored. Heatran sweep after Heatran sweep...*GAH* To remedy this, I like to have viable alternates that I can switch in and out of the team at will. Just to make things more interesting (I'm posting them here so I can actually remember what I EV'd them for >_<) [iCON]351[/iCON]NOAA's Mascot Can be switched with Heatran [animsprite]351[/animsprite] Castform @ Life Orb / Expert Belt Trait: Forecast EVs: 204 HP / 52 Def / 252 SAtk IVs: SAtk 30 / SDef 30 / Spd 3 Current Stats: 171-90-97-133-90-68 Quiet Nature (+SAtk, - Spd) - Fire Blast / Weather Ball - Solar Beam - Ice Beam - Hidden Power Ground / Protect / Thunderbolt I just had to include Castform in my weather team. ^^" Although he only has base 70 stats, he can still put the hurt on with his wide move pool. With the sun on his side, he changes into a fire type, giving stab to Fire Blast. It will be his main attack, causing some serious damage to things that don't resist it. Solar Beam allows him to hit Water and Rock types who would soak up Fire Blast. Ice Beam is to take out those troublesome Dragon types. Hidden Power Ground rounds out his coverage, allowing him to hit other fire types harder than any of his other attacks. Weather Ball is slashed if I find Fire Blast missing to much. Protect is always an option in doubles. Thunderbolt if I'm paranoid about Gyarados ruining my fun. ;_; The EVs are spread to give Castform the greatest attacking power while also retaining some bulk. He can take any priority attack that I can think of with enough HP for two turn of Life Orb. He can even take unboosted outrages from Salamence and Chomp should he have to. (Or most other neutral attacks) [iCON]357[/iCON]Chiquita Bananas! Can be switched with Sunflora [animsprite]357[/animsprite] Tropius @ Yache Berry Trait: Solar Power EVs: 212 HP / 44 Def / 248 SAtk / 4 SDef IVs: Atk 30 / SAtk 30 / Spd 2 Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd) - Air Slash - SolarBeam - Hidden Power [Fire] - Protect / Roost / Synthesis Tropius is Sunflora's alternate. Boasting the same ability, he can be a powerhouse. Air Slash and SolarBeam are there for STAB. They also have decent coverage along with Hidden Power Fire. HP Fire also gets a boost from the sun. Protect is there because I want it to be there >.> although Roost and Synthesis could provide for some extra healing. Roost will eliminate his Flying typing, letting him take Rock and Ice attacks easier. Synthesis gets a boost from the sun, ramping up its restorative power. The EVs allow for 100 HP substitutes. The Def EVs give him close to equal defenses, letting him take a hit from either side of the spectrum. With Yache Berry, he can take an Ice attack and attack back. I'm pretty sure he'll have enough HP for Solar Power recoil, aside from Glaceon's Ice Beam. >_> That still OHKO's. SAtk is maxed for obvious reasons. The remainder goes into SDef. [iCON]189[/iCON]Allergy Attack! (Can be switched with Cherrim) [animsprite]189[/animsprite] Jumpluff @ Power Anklet Trait: Leaf Guard EV’s: 236 HP / 252 Def / 20 SDef IV’s: 0 Spd Relaxed Nature (+ Def, - Spd) -Protect -Sunny Day - Helping Hand - Sleep Powder Never expected to see Jumpluff on a Trick Room team, did ya? He can become slow enough with a Power item and perform the same jobs as Cherrim. He is more deceiving than Cherrim, being super fast, no one will suspect him on a TR team. He has helping hand to help out the team and Sleep Powder, should he have an opportunity to use it, to incapacitate an opponent. With Exeggutor focusing on the special side to take out the weather inducers, he doesn’t need Cherrim’s support as much. I doubt it will be as effective as Cherrim when it comes to support, but it can shake things up and help me get the jump on my opponent. [iCON]162[/iCON]Suggestions My thoughts: Change Tangrowth to Shiftry< DONE This might seem foolish, but Shiftry might be able to function in Trick Room. Base 80 Speed and access to Sucker Punch allow him work around the Trick Room conditions. He can also function as an anti-lead, should I need it, as he has access to Fake Out, giving me a greater chance at setting up. He also has potential as a mixed attacker, allowing him to hit numerous Pokemon. Set recommend by Tbird [animsprite]275[/animsprite] Shiftry @ Life Orb Trait: Early Bird EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 SAtk Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd) - Sucker Punch - Explosion - Low Kick / Focus Blast - Leaf Storm / Solar Beam / Seed Bomb / Hidden Power Updated Shiftry set: [animsprite]275[/animsprite] Shiftry @ Life Orb Trait: Early Bird EVs: 84 HP/ 252 Atk / 4 Def / 164 SAtk / 4 SDef Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd) - Sucker Punch - Explosion - Low Kick - Leaf Storm / Solar Beam EVs allow for maximum attack while allowing me to take a Jolly Life Orb Mamoswine's Ice Shard and live with enough HP for two turns of Life Orb. 100% - 89% (Maximum damage roll) = 11% -10% (Life Orb) = 1% Atk is maxed out so he can hit as hard as possible with his physical moves. The rest goes into SAtk to bump up Leaf Storm. Intimidate from the likes of Salamence and Gyarados will give him problems, but Explosion can still KO them at -1 Atk. Replace Sunflora with another powerful, less obvious "Pseudo" Sun Sweeper. Lets just face it. Sunflora acts as a red flag for many players. She has low speed, low enough that she is more common on Trick Room teams rather than sun teams. Unfortunately, there are not many other Pokemon that have access to Chlorophyll and another ability. Shiftry as mentioned above could work. Tropius is another option as he can run an effective Chlorophyll Swords Dance set. He also has access to Solar Power, just like Sunflora, boosting his power even more. The only problem is his offensive stats are lacking, in comparison to Sunflora (105 vs 72), but his greater defensive stats and flying typing could give him all he really needs to sweep. Set recommended by Tbird [animsprite]357[/animsprite] Tropius (M) @ Life Orb Trait: Solar Power EVs: 248 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd) - SolarBeam - Air Slash - Hidden Power [Fire] - Protect/ synthesis Switch Hariyama for Blaziken< DONE Blaziken gives less of that Trick Room feeling. He benefits more from the Sun than Hariyama and boasts around the same number of resistances. He also resists many of the priority moves out there. Ice Shard, Bullet Punch, and Sucker Punch. I am trading a lot of bulk, for a lot more power. [animsprite]257[/animsprite] Blaziken @ Life Orb Trait: Blaze EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef < Subject to change Quiet Nature - Heat Wave - Superpower / Low Kick - Hidden Power Ice - Thunder Punch / Rock Slide He's a powerhouse. With sun boosted Heat waves, not many Pokemon will be left standing. Superpower acts as his other STAB, giving him pretty good coverage and power. Low Kick is another option if I don't like the stat drops, but the battles go so fast that they wouldn't matter. Hidden Power Ice and Thunder Punch act as coverage moves on things that resist Heat Wave and Superpower. Gyarados and Salamence are two prime examples. Trade Heatran's Shuca berry for a Chople Berry[/List]Earthquake is less common in Doubles because it hits your teammate as well as your opponent's Pokemon. Although there are exceptions to this "belief", Flying types and Levitate, since it is less common, it may be better to switch to another one of Heatran's weaknesses. Chople berry could help him survive Close Combat from any fighting pokemon. The EVs would need to be restructured with another goal in mind, but it is more viable than Shuca Berry [iCON]162[/iCON]Potential Threats Weather inducers are a problem, for any weather team. Since I don't use the weather for a speed boost, it doesn't cause too many issues other than the drop in power for some of my Pokemon. Priority attackers are a thorn in my side. Bullet Punching Scizor and Ice Sharding Mamoswine are only a few of my problems. Hopefully, the EVs are able to compensate... Other Trick Room teams can be a pain to deal with. Since I don't have an anti-lead, they can get Trick Room up without a hitch. Although this may sound beneficial for me, their Trick Room Pokemon are often slower than mine, allowing them to put pressure on me and my Pokemon. Bronzong could explode before I get a chance to do anything. Rhyperior could Megahorn his way through Cherrim, Etc. Fire Pokemon love to spam Heatwave in doubles. I have been murdered many times by Infernape and other fire types who employ such a tactic. With the Hariyama and Heatran, things will be easier, but not fool proof. Status leads can really mess up my strategy. Dark Void is common on Wi-Fi. Sleep could keep Exeggutor from taking care of his business. Togekiss falls into this category because of flinch hax. My strategy could be unsuccessful. They might catch on to the theme and wipe the floor with me afterward. ;_; After all, Sunflora does scream Trick Room. (That's what your truthful impressions will help me with.) [iCON]162[/iCON]Closing Words: Thank you, Project Pokemon, for taking some time to read this. For a long time, I wanted an effective Sun team. After many attempts and failures, I have come here. Although not traditional, this team has the potential to achieve my "Sun Team goal". With your help and input, I'm sure it will be completed, becoming a functional and viable team. *Remember to post your first impressions! Edited January 19, 2012 by ParaDoX65
Tbird Posted April 3, 2011 Posted April 3, 2011 I absolutely love this. It's great lead, and it looks like easily enough executed, like all great game plans you don't want iffy chances of getting what you want done, done. Just a thought, Shiftry with explosion? For Tropius w/ solar power I suggest: Tropius (M) @ Life Orb Trait: Solar Power EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SAtk Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd) - SolarBeam - Air Slash - Hidden Power [Fire] - Protect/ synthesis You're taking 20% damage each turn I believe, which is never good, but that gives you 6 turns to sweep (due to 401 HP), and you only need about 3; so barring priority you should be cool. To save you from extra unneeded damage you get a nice stab in form of Air slash for flinching. With sun up, you pretty much have stab on every attack here too, which is pretty awesome. HP fire IVs I'd suggest 31/30/31/30/31/2... best bulk, damage out put (base 70) and the lowest possible speed. If the 2 IVs are a problem for you, you can run 0 ~ 64 base power. Protect for exploding folk, or if you won't be having someone explode, synthesis will give you 75% each heal. Though I'm not sure if Longevity is of any importance to you. For shiftry: Shiftry (M) @ Life Orb Trait: Early Bird EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 SAtk EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SAtk / 4 Def Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd) Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd) - Sucker Punch - Seed Bomb / Solar Beam / Leaf Storm - Low Kick / Focus Blast - Explosion Hits 148 speed, which should be out pacing most things in TR. Packs universal coverage (aside from Toxicroak). I think this will probably destroy a lot of things . Evs on both sets Mean 11 turns of sweepage, just depends if you want mass bulk or mass damage output, If you go Sbeam + Focus blast run quiet, if not run brave, explosion is explosion.
ParaDoX65 Posted April 4, 2011 Author Posted April 4, 2011 Thanks for your thoughts Tbird. I am really considering switching Tangrowth for Shiftry. With him there, a Trick Room team seems out of the question. Explosion is another tool he has to work with. (I completely forgot about that ._.) I do like the first EV set, with the bulk, he can live through a good number of priority attacks. I might shift some more EVs from HP to SAtk if I decide to use Leaf Storm or Hidden Power. Tropius is another great option for this team. I'm leaning towards Sunflora though. I looked and found that a lot of Chlorophyll sweepers have low speed stats. Although not as low as Sunflora, Base 50 ish, I'm hoping people will assume Chlorophyll when looking at her teammates. (Especially if Shiftry is added) Her higher SAtk stat is also influencing me. When doing some random damage calculations, Troipus failed to achieve some of the OHKO's that Sunflora could get. His flying typing also makes it difficult for him to survive Ice Shards. :\ Maybe I'll have him as an alternate...
Gin Posted April 4, 2011 Posted April 4, 2011 My initial impressions(I'll edit in a rate later) this looks like a sun team, but an exceptionally slow sun team. You may want to change up your team or even add trick room or something, because Trick room + weather is actually viable in a doubles environment. I'm assuming you'll generally be leading off with Heatran and Cherrim for boosting purposes? Actually, Trick Room could be really good on your team considering you have Exxecutor already there. However, you'll have to swap your abilities then from chlorophyll. Generally, I open with either Abomasnow/Mewtwo or Dialga/Tyranitar. To tell you the truth, I think both would make mincemeat of this team.
Tbird Posted April 4, 2011 Posted April 4, 2011 Gin: Exeggutor @ Focus Sash Trait: Chlorophyll EVs: 164 HP / 196 Atk / 148 Def Base Stats: 95-95-85-125-65-55 Current Stats: 191-154-124-145-85-54 Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd) - Wood Hammer - Trick Room - Protect - Explosion
ParaDoX65 Posted April 4, 2011 Author Posted April 4, 2011 (edited) My initial impressions(I'll edit in a rate later)this looks like a sun team, but an exceptionally slow sun team. You may want to change up your team or even add trick room or something, because Trick room + weather is actually viable in a doubles environment. I'm assuming you'll generally be leading off with Heatran and Cherrim for boosting purposes? Actually, Trick Room could be really good on your team considering you have Exxecutor already there. However, you'll have to swap your abilities then from chlorophyll. Generally, I open with either Abomasnow/Mewtwo or Dialga/Tyranitar. To tell you the truth, I think both would make mincemeat of this team. You hit the nail on the head and didn't even notice it. (Indirectly, but you still added Trick Room to your "possibilities list".) This team is meant to operate in Trick Room which is the reason why it appears to be so slow. After posting this and taking a long look at the comments I have received, I realize that it does seem to Trick Roomy. With Tbird's suggested Shiftry set and the possible Blaziken addition, this team will begin to look faster. Hopefully fooling other players out there. Thanks for posting your impressions. (I had no idea you played doubles Gin. PO?) Edited April 5, 2011 by ParaDoX65
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