Charge (Move)

[Lt. Surge]

I remember the episode of Pokemon where Ash battled Brock's Onix and dealt damage to it using Pikachu's Thundershock.

Pikachu's circumstance from Charging Up with the help of Ash and Brock's dad allowed this clear "illegal" Electric-type attack to actually damage a Rock-type. I can imagine there being more instances where Pikachu was able to deal damage regardless of type disadvantage.

This brings to question, Why not allow the Move "Charge" to grant the user to deal damage, no matter what type Pokemon the foe? Considering it powers up Electric-type moves for one turn, this would make sense to me.

I know the Anime isn't currently like the Games and vice-versa, I just think it would be a nice attribute to add to further bridge that gap.

EDIT: To make it more balanced, against Ground/Rock types why not the next Electric attack be slower than the opponent?

Edited March 23, 2011 by Lt. Surge

[Sunny day]

This brings to question, Why not allow the Move "Charge" to grant the user to deal damage, no matter what type Pokemon the foe? Considering it powers up Electric-type moves for one turn, this would make sense to me.

Yeah, when you do so, the attack would be much more relevant, but on the other hand there will always be some attacks which are absolutely worthless. Besides, in-game they develop per generation some attacks that would grant a specific type to hit other types they normally could not hit (Foresight for Fighting Pokémon to hit Ghosts, Miracle Eye for Psychic Pokémon to hit Dark Pokémon). So, if an Electric Pokémon could hit a Ground Pokémon... I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. And it will 'legitimate' some passages in the anime as well, although there are much more differences between the games and the anime left.

[wraith89]

Ugh, no just no. I've had it with those overpowered Pikachus and their overpowered Thunders. Though... even if Charge did that, I doubt people would use it. Like, we know Miracle Eye negates Psychic immunity on Dark Pokemon, but how many Psychics run Miracle Eye seriously? I haven't seen any. In fact, I tried it once, but realised it will get you nowhere simply because Psychic does not do enough damage to the Dark Pokemon while the Dark Pokemon can easily overcome the Psychic with STAB Crunch or Sucker Punch or something, forcing the Psychic to retreat (and that has the possibility of being Pursuited, which is scary too). But, Electrics are normally faster than Grounds, so maybe it would have an effect, but I would not want to see a Swampert fall to an electric move. Ever. It's just embarrassing. However, that is why there are COVERAGE moves. Electrics do run moves like Grass Knot to deal with threats like those Rock/Grounds when they need to or even Focus Blast or whatever. Chances are, the immunity to electricity was designed very well so that people do not overspam that move, or else Electrics with their single weakness would pretty much be quite hard to take down (we know how hard Zapdos is to take down already...). It simply encourages more coverage moves to be ran alongside Thunderbolt. I like the whole idea of Grounds being the hard counters to Electrics, though this whole game is riddled with badly done types (Ice only resists Ice for example, they need to fix that).

For every countless Golems that lose to Ash's Pikachu, an Ekans eats a Pidgey. Please, think about the Pidgeys.

[Lt. Surge]

Ugh, no just no. I've had it with those overpowered Pikachus and their overpowered Thunders. Though... even if Charge did that, I doubt people would use it. Like, we know Miracle Eye negates Psychic immunity on Dark Pokemon, but how many Psychics run Miracle Eye seriously? I haven't seen any. In fact, I tried it once, but realised it will get you nowhere simply because Psychic does not do enough damage to the Dark Pokemon while the Dark Pokemon can easily overcome the Psychic with STAB Crunch or Sucker Punch or something, forcing the Psychic to retreat (and that has the possibility of being Pursuited, which is scary too). But, Electrics are normally faster than Grounds, so maybe it would have an effect, but I would not want to see a Swampert fall to an electric move. Ever. It's just embarrassing. However, that is why there are COVERAGE moves. Electrics do run moves like Grass Knot to deal with threats like those Rock/Grounds when they need to or even Focus Blast or whatever. Chances are, the immunity to electricity was designed very well so that people do not overspam that move, or else Electrics with their single weakness would pretty much be quite hard to take down (we know how hard Zapdos is to take down already...). It simply encourages more coverage moves to be ran alongside Thunderbolt. I like the whole idea of Grounds being the hard counters to Electrics, though this whole game is riddled with badly done types (Ice only resists Ice for example, they need to fix that).

For every countless Golems that lose to Ash's Pikachu, an Ekans eats a Pidgey. Please, think about the Pidgeys.

Water should be less effective against Ice, methinks. Unless it's a move like Scald?

What about against a Ground/Rock-type opponent, your Pokemon is slower when using the Electric attack? Technically Brock's Onix was able to catch Pikachu before it could jump out of the way, so I would grant it.

I must also reiterate that Charge would only allow the next turn for an Electric attack, not like Miracle Eye or Foresight.

I think the future of Pokemon is basically going to involve elements which were commonplace in the Anime, and you could choose between playing Turn Based or Real Time. Therefore in Real-Time certain moves could clash with one another like if both combatants chose Psybeam, Water Pump or Thunderbolt. So granting an ability to Charge like what I propose wouldn't be stretching it further than what I envision

[wraith89]

Water should be less effective against Ice, methinks. Unless it's a move like Scald?

What about against a Ground/Rock-type opponent, your Pokemon is slower when using the Electric attack? Technically Brock's Onix was able to catch Pikachu before it could jump out of the way, so I would grant it.

I must also reiterate that Charge would only allow the next turn for an Electric attack, not like Miracle Eye or Foresight.

I think the future of Pokemon is basically going to involve elements which were commonplace in the Anime, and you could choose between playing Turn Based or Real Time. Therefore in Real-Time certain moves could clash with one another like if both combatants chose Psybeam, Water Pump or Thunderbolt. So granting an ability to Charge like what I propose wouldn't be stretching it further than what I envision

I think Ice needs more resistance in general... they really messed it up defensively. An electric resistance or something would really help. I think it works that way. Water resistance, I'm not so sure about as I'm liking water's neutral coverage

Eh, I think that Electrics already have a few tools to beat some Ground types anyways, but I'm just afraid of things like Zapdos running amok and having more opportunities to defeat everything like that. The anime was rather inconsistent and just always made everything towards the protagonist's favour... and trollingly enough, always PICKING ON MY FAVOURITE POKEMONS too!

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Anime_physics

[Sunny day]

Like, we know Miracle Eye negates Psychic immunity on Dark Pokemon, but how many Psychics run Miracle Eye seriously? I haven't seen any. In fact, I tried it once, but realised it will get you nowhere simply because Psychic does not do enough damage to the Dark Pokemon while the Dark Pokemon can easily overcome the Psychic with STAB Crunch or Sucker Punch or something, forcing the Psychic to retreat (and that has the possibility of being Pursuited, which is scary too). But, Electrics are normally faster than Grounds, so maybe it would have an effect, but I would not want to see a Swampert fall to an electric move. Ever. It's just embarrassing.

I do not think it is that relevant to think about the effect of the move when you already have in mind who can use it or not. You cannot use Miracle Eye in competitive play, yes, I believe you, but if they stop to come up with moves because they cannot be used in competitive play... I bet they did not even think about it. 'It is fun to hit your enemy although you cannot hit them in normal conditions', I think that was the credo. It is up to you if you use it or not. Besides, I personally thought about some Future Sight effect, when it just hits 'normal', but maybe it would be better if it is indeed a proper equivalent of Miracle Eye. When you say that attack could not be used, you do not have to bother about Charge, too. So your lovely Swampert will not fall to an electric move. Maybe you can use Charge in-game doing so, because Charge now is actually a sort of Splash.

[wraith89]

I do not think it is that relevant to think about the effect of the move when you already have in mind who can use it or not. You cannot use Miracle Eye in competitive play, yes, I believe you, but if they stop to come up with moves because they cannot be used in competitive play... I bet they did not even think about it. 'It is fun to hit your enemy although you cannot hit them in normal conditions', I think that was the credo. It is up to you if you use it or not. Besides, I personally thought about some Future Sight effect, when it just hits 'normal', but maybe it would be better if it is indeed a proper equivalent of Miracle Eye. When you say that attack could not be used, you do not have to bother about Charge, too. So your lovely Swampert will not fall to an electric move. Maybe you can use Charge in-game doing so, because Charge now is actually a sort of Splash.

Nah. Gamefreak comes up with all sorts of useless moves every time (Struggle Bug anyone)? Miracle Eye has its uses, and it was a great idea, but in the end, it just is not worth it is all I am saying. Miracle Eye was well thought out, but Struggle Bug certainly wasn't. I'm not a complete competitive elitist; I think Pokemon should have moves that are relevant to their types and whatnot (hence why moves like Tackle exist)... just stating Miracle Eye's impracticality in the metagame.

The thing about Swampert is, without Ground typing, it would be weak to Electricity, and if this theoretical Charge negated electric immunity for a turn, it would take catastrophic damage.

Charge? It isn't all too bad. It powers up Electric moves and all, and raises the user's Special Defence for that turn, BUT one wasted turn = one wasted turn, and usually people bring Ground Pokemon to stop an Electric Pokemon, so it wouldn't work competitively. I just wish that Special Defence boost was permanent.

[Sunny day]

Charge? It isn't all too bad. It powers up Electric moves and all, and raises the user's Special Defence for that turn, BUT one wasted turn = one wasted turn, and usually people bring Ground Pokemon to stop an Electric Pokemon, so it wouldn't work competitively. I just wish that Special Defence boost was permanent.

Oh, it that so? Maybe I should play more 4th gen games, because in RSE you do not have that Special Defense boost! ^^

But what the heck is Struggle Bug? I does nothing in the end?

Anyway, in that case, it cannot be helped and Charge will be Charge... I think that would be the best option for now.

[wraith89]

Yep. A lot of things changed in Gen IV, such as Stockpile giving + 1 Def and SpDef, Waterfall getting a flinch rate of 20%, Leaf Blade powered up to 90 Base Power (as opposed to 70), etc...

Meh, Struggle Bug is a move I'm always going to make fun of in Gen V. Basically, this is the TM that replaced the VERY USEFUL Stealth Rocks. 30 Base Power (weaker than Tackle), SPECIAL, and reduces foe's Special Attack by 1 stage. The effect is okay, but 30 Base Power and being special when most Bugs that you will use in game are physical attackers? That's not very fun... and this is a GYM LEADER's TM. They should have used Signal Beam or something, then I would not mind as much.

Charge = Charge. Good enough. Charge + Discharge seems to pair up very well (their names and its effect).

[Sunny day]

Yep. A lot of things changed in Gen IV, such as Stockpile giving + 1 Def and SpDef, Waterfall getting a flinch rate of 20%, Leaf Blade powered up to 90 Base Power (as opposed to 70), etc...

Meh, Struggle Bug is a move I'm always going to make fun of in Gen V. Basically, this is the TM that replaced the VERY USEFUL Stealth Rocks. 30 Base Power (weaker than Tackle), SPECIAL, and reduces foe's Special Attack by 1 stage. The effect is okay, but 30 Base Power and being special when most Bugs that you will use in game are physical attackers? That's not very fun... and this is a GYM LEADER's TM. They should have used Signal Beam or something, then I would not mind as much.

Charge = Charge. Good enough. Charge + Discharge seems to pair up very well (their names and its effect).

Ah, thank you for your explanation, Wraith.

But you always say something at the end what gets me thinking... Charge and Discharge? How about a double-battle with Togekiss and Lanturn for example: Togekiss uses Follow Me and Lanturn uses Charge the first turn. The second turn Togekiss uses Protect and Lanturn blasts off his/her magical Discharge... Unless your opponent switches for Ground Pokémon, it would maybe have some effect... Nah, I think it is wasted effort to think about good uses of Charge.

[wraith89]

You're welcome.

Double Battles are full of strategies not found in single battles. For example, Discharge can help power up your ally Electivire or heal your ally Jolteon. And yeah... moves like Charge is hard to salvage. However, I did face one person who utilized a Charge Zapdos. Unfortunately, it happened to have Lightningrod as its ability (Gen V version = immunity to electric moves and + 1 SpA), and my Gardevoir had Trace, so... yeah.