How Can Non-Technical Players Verify Legitimacy of Pokémon RNG and Detect Hacked Pokémon?

[Albert930208]

23 minutes ago, Nuren said:

I cannot provide a better answer than what I have already provided. The answer is "It depends."

  

You must research the specific encounter, the specific details that are different from a legitimate Pokémon, and make the decision yourself. Both "yes" and "no" are wrong answers depending on the case.

I can try to compose Pokémon data for you to inspect its legality, but I am not a professional hacker. Even expert hackers can make mistakes at times, so obviously non-compliant Pokémon data (e.g., a Pokémon knowing Thunder but not having the TM Mark selected) can be distinguished. 0362 ★ - Glalie - 67F4D90E4436.pk90462 - ジバコイル - D00D33DCCEA0.pk90890 ★ - 無極汰那 - 1A77BB352663.pk9

I must reiterate my question to ensure there is no misunderstanding leading to a meaningless communication loop. A Pokémon from a Tera Raid Battle can have its data matched through RNG calculations. Is there a similar way for a wild Pokémon, allowing us to trace if its data could naturally occur in the game through encounters?

[Nuren]

16 minutes ago, Albert930208 said:

Is there a similar way for a wild Pokémon, allowing us to trace if its data could naturally occur in the game through encounters?

I feel like you are still trying to get an answer to a question that I said is too complex to answer. I am not going to provide an answer for every scenario you can think of. It is up to you to do the research yourself, like all of us in this thread have told you already. Pick the game, pick the encounter, research it thoroughly. Research how a Pokémon can be changed in game, and how you can move them around. Then answer it yourself.

I am not going to provide a hack check to Pokémon that you hacked. You already said you hacked them, so they are illegitimate, and they may or may not be illegal. Providing you the specific details that are suspicious or wrong, if they are not flagged by PKHeX, would be helping people to lie to others.

I think that you are conflating the different levels and abilities for people to hack check. Your question for this thread is for non technical users to hack check, which to me implies casual players who do not have CFW. This has been answered already (look for impossible values, then look for improbable traits).

Edited August 24, 2023 by Nuren

[Albert930208]

9 minutes ago, Nuren said:

I feel like you are still trying to get an answer to a question that I said is too complex to answer. I am not going to provide an answer for every scenario you can think of. It is up to you to do the research yourself, like all of us in this thread have told you already. Pick the game, pick the encounter, research it thoroughly. Research how a Pokémon can be changed in game, and how you can move them around. Then answer it yourself.

I think that you are conflating the different levels and abilities for people to hack check. Your question for this thread is for non technical users to hack check, which to me implies casual players who do not have CFW. This has been answered already (look for impossible values, then look for improbable traits).

I apologize for any confusion caused, as I am not a professional hacker, I am not able to clearly distinguish the "different levels and abilities of hackers" you mentioned. I also deeply apologize for any misdirection caused by the title; I mistakenly assumed that all users on this forum are familiar with pkhex. Therefore, I defined "non technical users" as those without programming backgrounds, rather than strictly users who have no exposure to CFW (custom firmware).

I am not completely avoiding CFW now, which is why I'm seeking to learn more details.

[Nuren]

37 minutes ago, Albert930208 said:

I apologize for any confusion caused, as I am not a professional hacker, I am not able to clearly distinguish the "different levels and abilities of hackers" you mentioned. I also deeply apologize for any misdirection caused by the title; I mistakenly assumed that all users on this forum are familiar with pkhex. Therefore, I defined "non technical users" as those without programming backgrounds, rather than strictly users who have no exposure to CFW (custom firmware).

I am not completely avoiding CFW now, which is why I'm seeking to learn more details.

The reason I will not provide more details is that you are asking about cases that are not immediately flagged red by PKHeX. You are asking me to tell you whether a hack is good enough or not that a human cannot distinguish. These details will never affect anyone playing the story with hacked/legal Pokémon, but will be used to lie to and trick others into thinking their Pokémon are legitimate. You are asking me to write an absolute massive amount of information that is only going to help people cheat.

Your question about whether wild Pokémon (assuming SV) have a correlation like Tera Raids was answered already on the first page of this thread.

PKHeX provides a fairly robust, basic legality check. A standard user who knows nothing and can get a PKM file can look at the legality check. If that user wants to know more, such as the chance of anything else happening, or what PKHeX does not handle, they must do further research themselves. The "non technical" player needs to become a "technical" player at this level.

I am not going to respond to any more questions that are similar.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Nuren

[Albert930208]

It seems we're going around in circles with the same question. I'm not incapable of comprehending all the content, although there might be a slight margin of error due to translation, the general understanding is pretty much the same.

The reason I have more questions is because you mentioned :

48 minutes ago, Nuren said:

You are asking me to tell you whether a hack is good enough or not that a human cannot distinguish. These details will never affect anyone playing the story with hacked/legal Pokémon, but will be used to lie to and trick others into thinking their Pokémon are legitimate. You are asking me to write an absolute massive amount of information that is only going to help people cheat.

My understanding of this statement would be that there indeed are deeper techniques in modifying Pokémon, and it aligns with my conjecture. Since you have concerns, I'm not seeking to know the specifics; I just want to confirm whether my assumption that there are indeed more sophisticated techniques in Pokémon modification is correct. And when you mentioned:

48 minutes ago, Nuren said:

The "non technical" player needs to become a "technical" player at this level.

it's exactly what I'm attempting to do.

 

[Nuren]

15 minutes ago, Albert930208 said:

it's exactly what I'm attempting to do.

I am repeating myself at this point. I will not provide all the information you want, or any simple yes/no answers, because:

• There is too much information even if I wanted to provide all of it. I could write a textbook. There is no easy 15-minute tutorial to become an expert in Pokémon legality.
• Context for the Pokémon matters, and the answer will change for every case.
• You are asking for highly technical information beyond PKHeX legality checks, in a manner that can easily be used to help people lie to others. I am not interested in breaking the rules of the site, or providing public information that will be used for harm over good.
• Your question does not align with the topic of this thread. If you only wanted to help regular players who can access a PKM file hack check, we have provided the answer multiple times in this thread. (Look for strictly illegal traits, using PKHeX if you want. Then look for improbable traits. Assess the situation. Make your own decision.)

What I know, I have learned from years of playing the games, experimenting, and observing. You can do the same thing by viewing the data of legitimate Pokémon in PKHeX. Many older mechanics are documented on the internet. This is what we are encouraging you to do when we say that you must research what you want to know.

 

Edited August 24, 2023 by Nuren

[Albert930208]

11 minutes ago, Nuren said:

And this is how you do it:

I am repeating myself at this point. I will not provide all the information you want, or any simple yes/no answers, because:
- There is too much information even if I wanted to provide all of it. I could write a textbook. There is no easy 15-minute tutorial to become an expert in Pokémon legality.
- Context for the Pokémon matters, and the answer will change for every case.
- You are asking for highly technical information beyond PKHeX legality checks, in a manner that can easily be used to help people lie to others. I am not interested in breaking the rules of the site, or providing public information that will be used for harm over good.
- Your question does not align with the topic of this thread. If you only wanted to help regular players who can access a PKM file hack check, we have provided the answer multiple times in this thread. (Look for strictly illegal traits, using PKHeX if you want. Then look for improbable traits. Assess the situation. Make your own decision.)

What I know, I have learned from years of playing the games, experimenting, and observing. You can do the same thing by viewing the data of legitimate Pokémon in PKHeX. Many older mechanics are documented on the internet. This is what we are encouraging you to do when we say that you must research what you want to know.

Thank you for your response and the advice you've provided. The suggestion you mentioned, which involves viewing the data of legitimate Pokémon in PKHeX, is something I've been doing and is already familiar to me. Even if I have new questions or need to compare data, I can rely on examining PKHeX's database or using search engines to find answers.

I completely understand your reluctance to inadvertently assist malicious hackers who disrupt the game, as this is a concern I've also considered. It's an assumption that even basic PKHeX users might contemplate. I have a request: aside from the straightforward data comparison for verifying legitimacy, how can I further learn about highly technical information beyond PKHeX legality checks? You don't need to reveal violations or your concerns. Even providing a general direction would be a significant help, allowing me to pursue learning and data collection. Thank you.

[Nuren]

31 minutes ago, Albert930208 said:

I have a request: aside from the straightforward data comparison for verifying legitimacy, how can I further learn about highly technical information beyond PKHeX legality checks?

The vast majority of what I knew at first was from testing and observing, as I said before. I keep a large database of Pokémon that are legitimate or most likely legitimate (from trusted users) to check whenever I have a question.

Pporg has some technical documents here: https://projectpokemon.org/home/docs/

There are other sites you can look for to learn what others have made public. Smogon has some older threads for research: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/past-gen-rng-research.61090/

Even Bulbapedia has some information about the different kinds of RNG used: https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pseudorandom_number_generation_in_Pokémon

As well as Pokemon data structures: https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pokémon_data_structure_(Generation_IV)

There are some databases of mostly legitimately obtained Pokémon data that you can look at.
RoC's PC is well known: https://github.com/ReignOfComputer/RoCs-PC (there may be some hacks in there).
I also keep one here that is public: https://github.com/Lusamine/Anubirb

If you are interested in RNG correlations, you can look at RNG manipulation tools to see how the math is done.
One example is Pokefinder: https://github.com/Admiral-Fish/PokeFinder

Honestly, you could read through this legality forum and see answers to other questions to learn more.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Nuren