Feralligates Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 The power/accuracy debate isn't set in stone. I am one of the people who preffere to have as much accuracy as possible. Is there something wrong with that? By "cold, hard facts" I wasn't referring to the "power/accuracy" debate. Certainly, I also think accuracy over power, but sometimes one must look beyond that. And yes I did post it here for critique. But that doesn't mean I have to make every change that is suggested. I don't think that opting not to go with Fire Blast is a particularly stingy stance. No one here is making you adopt every recommendation we've given--they're just that, suggestions; you take or leave. Like I said, we're being courteous enough giving critiques and trying to help you by giving pointers and info. Anyways, I've critiqued enough, so I shall move along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EchoLandon Posted July 18, 2010 Author Share Posted July 18, 2010 God....why does everyone says mamoswine wont work! My mamoswine works. I will try a few different things baced on what you said. But I wont completely change his role. He has never failed me so epicly that I need to change his basic strategy. You say that mamoswine wont live long after it comes out. But mine does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randomspot555 Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 God....why does everyone says mamoswine wont work!My mamoswine works. I will try a few different things baced on what you said. But I wont completely change his role. He has never failed me so epicly that I need to change his basic strategy. You say that mamoswine wont live long after it comes out. But mine does. That's fine and dandy. The only way to really tell is battling, and battling a lot. I'm usually hanging around PP Shoddy, as is Tbird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tbird Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 I don't wanna beat a dead horse with the Dnite thing, but, the fireblast OHKO will be very useful. You say that EQ is nasty right? Well why let someone else who is similarly frail take the EQ? (weakened mamo won't be able to ice shard as the EQ will probably kill it off after prior damage and rocks damage) Say Dnite comes in on the same turn you nasty plot and goes for EQ, you can fire blast it to oblivion, and then carry on sweeping. This way you don't have to switch out, like you've already said you hate doing . And I don't know why but for some reason I am actually quite feeling the lum berry, it's a nice unexpected touch. A lot of people will switch in their status platforms, and you'll melt straight through them. However, to do any proper melting you will need the power. And dude, I love mamoswine leads . In fact one on one yours would probably best mine, but the problem is it's not going to be doing anything if it can't outspeed metagross and heatran, They usually have shucca berries so by the time you've EQ'd once, they've KOed you where as it could be the other way around. Anywhom that's about it ... for now, haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EchoLandon Posted July 18, 2010 Author Share Posted July 18, 2010 I did a damage calculator and the fire blast didnt vome close to ohko and the flamethrower was not swell either. Why is that? I gave dragonite minimum spdef, infernape 292 spatk with +2 modifier. Where did I go wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tbird Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 I did a damage calculator and the fire blast didnt vome close to ohko and the flamethrower was not swell either. Why is that?I gave dragonite minimum spdef, infernape 292 spatk with +2 modifier. Where did I go wrong? I have no idea... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EchoLandon Posted July 18, 2010 Author Share Posted July 18, 2010 Alright. Here are the changes I made. Ill work with these and see how it goes. Oter changes will be made later if I see fit. Tusk (Mamoswine) (M) @ Focus Sash Trait: Snow Cloak EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Ice Shard - Avalanche - Earthquake - Stealth Rock Romana (Vaporeon) (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Water Absorb EVs: 128 HP / 252 Def / 128 Spd Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk) - Substitute - Baton Pass - Surf - Heal Bell Flamberge (Scizor) (F) @ Leftovers Trait: Technician EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Brick Break - Swords Dance - Bullet Punch - Roost Alexander (Dragonite) (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Inner Focus EVs: 252 HP / 60 Atk / 12 Def / 184 Spd Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Dragon Claw - Dragon Dance - Roost - Earthquake Astra (Starmie) @ Choice Specs Trait: Natural Cure EVs: 4 Def / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) - Rapid Spin - Ice Beam - Thunderbolt - Surf Prometheus (Infernape) (M) @ Lum Berry Trait: Blaze EVs: 64 Atk / 252 Spd / 192 SAtk Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef) - Nasty Plot - Flamethrower - Close Combat - Grass Knot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tbird Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 Ok We'll do a quick little check list then Alright. Here are the changes I made. Ill work with these and see how it goes. Oter changes will be made later if I see fit.Tusk (Mamoswine) (M) @ Focus Sash Trait: Snow Cloak EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Ice Shard - Avalanche - Earthquake - Stealth Rock I like it, as said avalanche could be replaced by something else, but it's got the speed now so, s'all good. Romana (Vaporeon) (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Water Absorb EVs: 128 HP / 252 Def / 128 Spd Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk) - Substitute - Baton Pass - Surf - Heal Bell You'll probably come to find that a better set is available. Though, for passing subs, this should work. I do however feel that HP electric should go over heal bell as gyarados does pose a threat to this team and without this 'check' He can DDance in your face and at +2 KO your whole team Flamberge (Scizor) (F) @ Leftovers Trait: Technician EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Brick Break - Swords Dance - Bullet Punch - Roost If you went for sub here instead of on vaporeon then it would free up space for Vappy to run wish/Protect/HP electric/Surf, which is IMO better. However, with the vappy set thus far It looks good to me. Alexander (Dragonite) (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Inner Focus EVs: 252 HP / 60 Atk / 12 Def / 184 Spd Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Dragon Claw - Dragon Dance - Roost - Earthquake I like it, Provide some nice coverage and can tank some hits too. A wish set on vappy could remove the need for roost and free up room for an elemental punch/Draco Meteor/Fireblast/anything for extra coverage Astra (Starmie) @ Choice Specs Trait: Natural Cure EVs: 4 Def / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) - Rapid Spin - Ice Beam - Thunderbolt - Surf I would say vappy replaces this really. I wanna try and stop banging on about wish... but wish would eliminate the need for rapid spin, thus freeing up a space for a whole new pokemon. (Starmie allows for Magnezone to take out 1/2 of your team too, possibly 3/4... where as if blissey was here, magnezone would be stopped dead in its tracks) Prometheus (Infernape) (M) @ Lum Berry Trait: Blaze EVs: 64 Atk / 252 Spd / 192 SAtk Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef) - Nasty Plot - Flamethrower - Close Combat - Grass Knot I still urge fire blast as you can see from my print screen above, but otherwise infernape is a great wall breaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EchoLandon Posted July 18, 2010 Author Share Posted July 18, 2010 I meant to get rid of rapid spin yes. I wil do that. But vap replacing starmie makes no sense. Starmie is a special sweeper. Vaporeon is support. And before I get rid of Starmie I will get rid of vaporeon. I battled 4 people. 1. 1-0 me. It felt hard to get this win. I barely did with vappy surfing at the end. Not to mention this was a UU team I fought. 2. 0-6 them. sheddy sweep 3. 4-0 me. Nice sub-->scizor sweep 4. 0-4 them. fail. Just fail. Mamoswine is dying much faster now. Infernape used to give at least as good as he got and now that isnt happening. Alexander is the same. Vaporeon isnt working right. Scizor is carrying the team. Starmie is the same. Infernape isnt adjusted yet. I am not complaining about your advice. I will keep battling with a tweek here and there and see what I can do. Perhaps all I need is to adjust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tbird Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 Well there's bound to be teething problems as is with any changes, keep at it and try all the different things out, eventually you'll find something for each set. I guess I'm just not seeing the team from your point of view here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EchoLandon Posted July 18, 2010 Author Share Posted July 18, 2010 I think I need to get rid of vaporeon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EchoLandon Posted July 18, 2010 Author Share Posted July 18, 2010 Alright. I have edited the team and this is what I've come up with. Europa (Blissey) (F) @ Leftovers Trait: Natural Cure EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk) - Wish - Seismic Toss - Heal Bell - Stealth Rock Lead bliss to set up rocks and leave. I then use her later for wish/cleric support. Tusk (Mamoswine) (M) @ Life Orb Trait: Snow Cloak EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Ice Shard - Avalanche - Earthquake - Stone Edge Modified to be a physical attacker. Alexander (Dragonite) (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Inner Focus EVs: 252 HP / 60 Atk / 12 Def / 184 Spd Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Dragon Claw - Dragon Dance - Roost - Earthquake Same. Astra (Starmie) @ Choice Specs Trait: Natural Cure EVs: 4 Def / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) - Psychic - Ice Beam - Thunderbolt - Surf Same. Flamberge (Scizor) (F) @ Leftovers Trait: Technician EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Brick Break - Swords Dance - Bullet Punch - Roost Same with Brick break Prometheus (Infernape) (M) @ Lum Berry Trait: Blaze EVs: 64 Atk / 252 Spd / 192 SAtk Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef) - Nasty Plot - Flamethrower - Close Combat - Grass Knot He is working well I just need to get the hang of boosting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tbird Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 Blissey definitely does NOT want to be a lead, throw it where vaporeon was, give it seismic toss, and put mamo back in lead position. That should work well. However without vaporeon you are under serious threat of DD 'Dos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EchoLandon Posted July 18, 2010 Author Share Posted July 18, 2010 Ill try that. But I just won 3 battles with this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shogun Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 There is no need for Flash Cannon on Heatran, you should use Explosion instead. Starmie would be better with Life Orb instead, so you can get to do strong damage and flexibility. I don't think you need to worry that much about Breloom in your team, but it's all up to you. You're also in trouble against Infernapes, Scizors and Gyarados... try to prepare counters for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EchoLandon Posted July 19, 2010 Author Share Posted July 19, 2010 If I may, people keep telling me not to worry about countering every single pokmeon in the metagame, and then name a few that they think I should counter.... First off, does Life orb on starmie give it similar power to choice specs? I got rid of heatran and now have blissey. Starmie and dragonite can kill infernape while starmie can also kill gyarados while my own infernape can kill scizor. So far this team has been woring far better than any Ive ever had. Tusk (Mamoswine) (M) @ Focus Sash Trait: Snow Cloak EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Ice Shard - Avalanche - Earthquake - Stealth Rock Europa (Blissey) (F) @ Leftovers Trait: Natural Cure EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk) - Wish - Seismic Toss - Heal Bell - Toxic Flamberge (Scizor) (F) @ Leftovers Trait: Technician EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Brick Break - Swords Dance - Bullet Punch - Roost Alexander (Dragonite) (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Inner Focus EVs: 252 HP / 60 Atk / 12 Def / 184 Spd Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Dragon Claw - Dragon Dance - Roost - Earthquake Astra (Starmie) @ Choice Specs Trait: Natural Cure EVs: 4 Def / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) - Hidden Power [Dark] - Ice Beam - Thunderbolt - Surf Prometheus (Infernape) (M) @ Lum Berry Trait: Blaze EVs: 64 Atk / 252 Spd / 192 SAtk Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef) - Nasty Plot - Flamethrower - Close Combat - Grass Knot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EchoLandon Posted July 19, 2010 Author Share Posted July 19, 2010 Alright! This is quite odd. One minute I am pwning with that team and the next I cant win a battle. I am going to have to do SOMETHING. Get rid of blissey I suppose..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randomspot555 Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 Tusk (Mamoswine) (M) @ Focus Sash Trait: Snow Cloak EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Ice Shard - Avalanche/Protect/Endeavor/Stone Edge - Earthquake - Stealth Rock At the very least, try those out. Mamoswine has decent speed, and Avalance has that negative priority. This also leaves you a bit weak to the rare lead Gyarados. Endeavor, Protect, or Stone Edge help out with that. Europa (Blissey) (F) @ LeftoversTrait: Natural Cure EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk) - Wish - Seismic Toss - Heal Bell/Flamethrower/Ice Beam - Toxic/Thunder Wave Wish is excellent especially since you don't have a Rapid Spinner. Heal Bell/Aroma Therapy might not be as nearly useful as you might think, so you might want to test out an elemental attack of your choice. Thunder Wave, as long as you can avoid hitting Electivire, is I think much more useful than Toxic, and has better accuracy. Scizor and Dragonite are fine. Astra (Starmie) @ Choice SpecsTrait: Natural Cure EVs: 4 Def / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) - Hidden Power [Dark] - Ice Beam - Thunderbolt - Surf HP Dark is a horrible Hidden Power because nothing takes x4 damage from it. Think of Hidden Power like this: Hidden Power has the max base power of 70. For super effective damage (x2), it hits for 140 damage. For quad damage, it hits for 280. Compare that to STAB Surf, which hits 120 for neutral damage. This means you only want to use Hidden Power for x4 damage. That is HP Ice, HP Fire, HP Fighting, HP Electric, HP Ground, and HP Grass. HP Ice is by far the most common, the others less so. Starmie doesn't need HP Ice, Grass, or Electric due to Ice Beam, Grass Knot, and Thunderbolt. The major baddie who takes x4 from Fighting also take x2 damage from STAB Surf. That leaves HP Fire, which'll hit Scizor. You can put HP Fire on Choiced Starmie or Grass Knot, depending on if you want to hit Scizor or Swampert. Trick is also an option and will cripple special walls such as Blissey and Snorlax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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