research Gen 3 Event Generation Algorithm Research (10ANNIV, etc)

[Sabresite 809]

2 hours ago, ajxpk said:

Yeah, no flawless Berry Glitch Fix Zigzagoon.
It's ss + mm + dd after all. So the lowest is 0 and the highest is 59 seconds + 59 min  + 23 hours = 141.


Here is a "timed" (can we even call it RNG? lol) Japanese Zigzagoon. Generated on the initial seed 0x00.

 

263 ★ - ジグザグマ - 495100005281.pk3

I remember having a total of 145 from HaxAras though. I'll have to double check.

[ozderya 11]

So how about Negaiboshi, it looks similar with BGF for me. I hope it doesn’t have same issue.

[Sabresite 809]

10 hours ago, ozderya said:

So how about Negaiboshi, it looks similar with BGF for me. I hope it doesn’t have same issue.

No, Negaiboshi, 5th anniv and presumably all events before wshmkr were done using RTC.

[Invader TAK 126]

@ajxpk

Just wondering, if we took a multiboot from 10ANNIV or Aura Mew and replaced that Pokemon with another Pokemon that was generated the same way (for example, replacing Aura Mew with 10 ANIV Celebi or SPACE C Deoxys), would it be generated the same way as it would be on the original multiboot? I'm only asking since it could be a last resort if we can't get any more of the actual multiboots.

Edited January 18, 2018 by Invader TAK

[ajxpk 538]

Yeah, that's true. But it's not an easy task to do as you might think. There are checksum protections ect. 
As soon as you mess with something in 10ANNIV/Aura Error Code 5 pops up.

[Deoxyz 378]

@Invader TAK

I wouldn't expect modification to be plausible any time soon, if ever. Even swapping a MB from 10ANNIV into Aura will cause the error due to these checksums.

As said before, only BGFZ is easily modified, but since nothing generates with the same algorithm(besides JP version), it's pointless for practical purposes. And now we even have the legitimate JP BGFZ multiboot.

[Sabresite 809]

1 hour ago, Deoxyz said:

@Invader TAK

I wouldn't expect modification to be plausible any time soon, if ever. Even swapping a MB from 10ANNIV into Aura will cause the error due to these checksums.

As said before, only BGFZ is easily modified, but since nothing generates with the same algorithm(besides JP version), it's pointless for practical purposes. And now we even have the legitimate JP BGFZ multiboot.

If you flip one line of code in BFG, it will generate normal BACD events like wshmkr, but with antishiny.

It looks like the generation function remained virtually the same between NegaiBoshi & Pre-Standard (GCEA) minus the copy/paste fuck up with Wshmkr.  The standard generation is pretty similar too actually.  They just refined it for later distribution types and made it more robust so it didn't require stuff to be done before calling it. The way they used the generation function (doing weird seeding, lookup table then calling generation function, etc) was different.

[Sabresite 809]

Going back to one of the original debates in this thread, I went over the ROCKS Metang that is publicly available and it looks like a 10 aniv Articuno that was modified. The species name ends with "O\FF\FF" and the OTN ends with "V". Also the base friendship is wrong. The chances of this being a mess up by GF when they made the distribution rom is remote. Mainly because of how the species name is copied and the base friendship, both of which are dynamically looked up by the species index.

[InsaneNutter 251]

@Sabresite The save here:

Has an evolved Rocks Metang, maybe that could help determine?

"rocks metank(metagross evolved):_got from a class mate who actually went to the event pokemon rocks america back in 2005 in chicago.the event had demo of pokemon xd gale of darkness.the players who completed thye demo has recieved some kind of card for exchange of metang in counte.the metang lvl is lvl 30 whwn it was received and has a special move refresh.my friend actually recieved it in his fire red catridge(which he no longer wanted).thank god he didnt trade it to further generation.i traded it to this save file .it evoled to metagross and now lvl 84."

I've asked arjunnnn if he still has a save with the Rocks Metang before it was evolved.

[ajxpk 538]

We definitely need it unevolved. Regarding the other Metang, it's pretty funny. I already stated before that I think it's a hack, it's in my hacks folder since I saw it the first time. I just couldn't remember what the Trash Bytes exactly were. But yesterday we were going through it and like @Sabresite says the case is obvious. Yet you guys still uploaded it without having it checked first.  Reminds me of the Hadou titans which was kinda the same story. Anyways, the good thing is we finally get back to searching for a Rocks Metang. Hope this time successfully.

Edit:

Just to remind you on what we still miss, not for the Gallery, but for the complete the documentation. All as Gen 3 files please and never transferred to COL/XD! As you remove important data by doing so. I can promise that files I receive won't be made public if you don't want them to. Any file I receive is for research only.

Quote

-Missing JPN-
STAMP Absol
STAMP Pichu
Sapporo Pikachu
More Hadou titans (Especially Regirock)
More PokePark Jirachis

- Missing ENG-
ROCKS Metang
We need more PCNYs (Especially PCNY Christmas Day Seviper)
9 of 12 JEREMY (No clue about this as I don't see them as real Events, feel free to clarify)

 

Thanks to @Deoxyz who made the list, mine wasn't up to date with the PCNYs. I would recommend to report new files in this or another Thread so that stuff like this won't happen again. 

Edited January 29, 2018 by ajxpk

[Deoxyz 378]

Actually, I JUST found a single Christmas Day PCNY Seviper buried among the Pokemon Box Promo PCNY Sevipers, while reorganizing Digiex's compilation save for InsaneNutter. So we can update the list, however more are always more than welcome.  Anything PCNY is more than welcome, especially considering how Bulbapedia doesn't even have them all documented.

Edited January 29, 2018 by Deoxyz

[Luca.b 3]

On 1/11/2017 at 6:19 PM, ajxpk said:

Yep. 10ANNIV. All downloaded from the English European Distribution Rom. 
I messed with the save files data, mainly TID and SID to get the result I wanted and it worked.
It definitely uses data from the save files but in a different way than Wishmaker... about how... I really don't know...
I made some notes but it turned out being wrong when I failed to hit the Seed 0x0008 and others too...
Anti-Shiny would be important to know as well.

Have you discovered anything about how the seed is generated in 10anniv and aura mew roms? I am curious to know how it works!

[Sabresite 809]

1 hour ago, Luca.b said:

Have you discovered anything about how the seed is generated in 10anniv and aura mew roms? I am curious to know how it works!

They fixed the checksum sometime between wishmaker and GCEA. IIRC, the seed is the xor of every section in the save including the secondary save. Shinies are rerolled.

[Luca.b 3]

On 25/2/2018 at 11:42 PM, Sabresite said:

They fixed the checksum sometime between wishmaker and GCEA. IIRC, the seed is the xor of every section in the save including the secondary save. Shinies are rerolled.

Thank you! The sections of the save file are the 32 4kB sections?

[Sabresite 809]

31 minutes ago, Luca.b said:

Thank you! The sections of the save file are the 32 4kB sections?

Sorry I was not clear enough. It is a xor of the checksum of each of the sections. There are 14 per save, and it does both primary and secondary saves.

[ajxpk 538]

@Luca.b Yeah, sorry. I thought I already mentioned it, but just noticed that I didn't.
It's like @Sabresite said, all you have to do is XORing each of the 14 save file section checksums together and that will give you the initial seed.

[ajxpk 538]

I just confirmed that GW Pikachu has incremented seeds.
This means that it was seeded using RTC data, which could only come from the Distribution cartridge.
This also confirms the existence of GBA distribution cartridges with RTC... just like I guessed before...

[Guest]

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Edited December 22, 2019 by Guest

[Sabresite 809]

5 hours ago, Purin said:

Yes, they do exist

The thing @ajxpk and I are trying to figure out is when (or which?) distributions used the same method as WSHMKR, and which used the same as older events like 5th anniv.

[ajxpk 538]

Yeah, so basically there are 5 known types of seeding now.

- Using RTC data from the Ruby/Sapphire cartridge with the seed algorithm from Ruby & Sapphire.
Used for Pokémon Center 5th Anniversary, Negaiboshi Jirachi and potentially Stamp.

- Using RTC data from the Ruby/Sapphire cartridges ss + mm + hh.
Only for the Shiny Zigzagoon from the Berry Program Update.

- Using save file checksum above Save Data Section 0xD.
Meteor/Wishmaker Jirachi, potentially Tanabata Jirachi 2004, ANA Pikachu and maybe Yokohama Pikachu as well.

- Using RTC included inside the Distribution Cartridge with the RS seed algorithm.
GW Pikachu and potentially other Events...

- Using all Save Data Section Checksums and XOR them.
10th Anniversary, Aura Mew ect.

Edited May 8, 2018 by ajxpk

[Sabresite 809]

Also DS Download Play has clock capabilities IIRC, so Hadou could have been either RTC or checksum! We may never know.

[ajxpk 538]

I did some further research and something has come to my mind during this research...
The thing is why would they add an RTC to the Distribution Cartridge just for the seed all alone if XORing checksums is a much better way to ensure a broad variety of seeds? The only answer for this that came to my mind is "Distribution Time Limit". They used cartridges with RTC and eventually decided to use the RTC for the seed. Who the hell knows why... I was taking a closer look to see if I can find something related to it and I did and I would like to reveal this now. What I discovered was a hidden mode inside the Top 10 - 10th Anniversary rom, called "EDIT MODE".

This is what it looks like:



To get access to it, while booting the distribution ROM you have to hold LEFT + L + SELECT simultaneously. 
In the EDIT MODE you can see the CURRENT TIME of the RTC and 6 registers with the start dates and end dates, in this case there's only one being set by default. Which is 2006/01/01 - 2006/08/31, there's an unused function with an "OUT OF DATE" string. If it was in use you probably would not be able to distribute anything if the current time isn't within that period and return the message to inform you.

This brought me to another conclusion, if they used the current time in combination with the set time limit for these distributions, the seed would be linked to that certain time frame because it would come from the same RTC. I think everyone here can imagine what this means... a real nightmare in terms of legality of Gen 3 Event Pokemon. Especially for Events that were only distributed for a short time period. 

Edited May 7, 2018 by ajxpk

[Guest]

-

Edited December 22, 2019 by Guest

[ozderya 11]

ajxpk, is that possible to change something and save? 

I tried change settings, and saved with Start. After rebooting room my edit was gone.   

[ajxpk 538]

It doesn't saves anything. It's the same thing with the Distribution Counter. 
It would be useless anyway since the function is unused in Top 10 - 10th Anniversary. Aura Mew does save the Distribution Counter but the RTC stuff was completely removed.

Let's hope a miracle happens and a distribution rom appears with the functionality still intact. 

Edited May 7, 2018 by ajxpk