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Gen VI metagame speculation


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Did you guys realise how much they're trying to nerf Special Attacks in this generation? For one, Ice Beam/Thunderbolt/Flamethrower/Surf are now 90 BP, Dragon Pulse is 85 BP, Aura Sphere is 80 BP, Blizzard/Thunder/Fire Blast/Hurricane are 110 BP now (Focus Miss remains the same because it's Focus Miss), and there seems to be a huge concentration of slow bulkymon, a lot of them with large Special Defence. There's an Aromatic move that raises allies Special Defence. Even Assault Vest only raises Special Defence. I'm not sure if I understand it, but wouldn't that just make the metagame more physically oriented than it was before? I'd love to see Close Combat get the nerf too, but so far, it does not seem to be the case. If that's Gamefreak's way of saying "Balance"... eh. I know in the unrestricted metagame it is primarily Special Attackers because Mewtwo / everything else are like that, but still... how do you think this will turn out to be? Alakazam is getting more SpDef? Wow, yeah.

One thing I don't like: Moonblast is 95 BP: those others like Ice Beam are 90 BP. Ew, stop trying to make Fairies so special -__-

Please change Pidgeot's base stats, please please please, though it feels like Pidgeot's plushier than before (it has lower defences than my Greninja, which is worrisome). I'm playing through the game and so far its movelist is the same as before (Yes Wing Attack on Level 38 while everything else gets it at like stupidly early Level 7 or 9 and the likes). Or if there's a Mega Pidgeot, I can be very happy! Also, please make Nidoqueen' shiny purple. So much wishing going on here, but that's not what this thread is for :/

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Think about it, though: If Blissey didn't exist, how many physical moves would you even use?

From a "WE NEED TO FIX COMPETITIVE" standpoint, it makes sense to make special attacking moves weaker.

Of course, this means Blissey will probably be debuffed a bit to give her a bit less special defence. Maybe. I really have no clue at this point - Gamefreak is insane.

Oh, and if Pikachu is getting a buff, I REALLY hope Raichu does too. I don't want Raichu to become the worse evolution...

Shuckle needs some more HP, too. Right now he has less than a Sunkern.

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Has anyone else had a look at smogons preliminary base stats?

Jesus christs some of them look crazy on the mega front, alakazam with apparently 175 SpA and 150 Spe. Mawile with huge power and 105 atk, never mind that it has swords dance and sucker punch. Those sorts of stats even make mega charizards offences that's look wimpy at 124/ 129/ 100. Even Heracross has 185 atk. I think a lot of megas will infortunatly be banned of these prelims are correct, which'll be a shame, they went too far one way :/

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But the thing is, Blissey does exist. And moves like Psyshock was introduced so it wouldn't be infinitely walling things forever (though it does for most stuff), and Psyshock's sitting pretty at 80 BP, which means you actually can choose between that and Psychic, and most side with Psychic because it's more consistent and powerful. Now there's Eviolite Chansey (who will get eaten by Mega Gengar btw). But there's not really anything that mirrors Blissey for the physical side. Skarmory isn't comparable at all as neutral Fighting moves after a couple of hits will eventually wear it out (not to mention it lost its resistances to Ghost and Dark), and we get things like Avalugg to compensate (lol Gamefreak, what are you doing??). Forretress doesn't even have reliable recovery, and neither does Mega Aggron who doesn't get Leftovers (though it'd make a nice physical wall, that's for certain). I don't really know if this nerfing of Special moves was really a good idea when there's not much done for the ever so ubiquitous Close Combat and stuff of that sort, shifting the metagame even MORE physical than it already was before. It's scary to think about actually, and the only relevant players are yet again the high powered Dragons/Fighters/Steels and other stuff. Yes, Fairies was made to counter that, but that just means more rise of Steels, and honestly, I'm becoming skeptical about the "balance" they were trying to create. There's a huge focus on the Special side this generation, and I know the argument that Special would arguably be the better attacking side due to their higher base power moves and that status like Burn cripples physical attacks and Intimidate exists, but something sure doesn't seem right.

About the Megas... we all thought ScarfTraplure was bad: oh boy... how about taking that SpA to the next level, extra speed, and picking and choosing who to kill? Mega Gengar's going straight to ubers: there's really no negotiating that. What the heck Mega Alakazam? You already hit too hard regularly, now you hit even harder than Mewtwo and faster? It seems it got some power from the devil: looks like a combination of a Hexagram, an Indian mystic, and Baphomet. Good grief, and I was hoping Mega Gengar could take down Alakazam, but they had to troll again. This is probably why Mewtwo even has a Mega... ha ha. Mega Medicham is carrying Pure Power and has 100 Base Attack... and you thought nerfing Special Attacks and leaving physical attacks alone was a good idea? I'd be laughing so hard if Hi Jump Kick ended up at 140 BP now, that would be funny. Wait, Mega Mawile is 105 Attack? Are they crazy? I don't know what can safely switch into Sucker Punch/Fairy STAB/Steel STAB/SD with bloated defences and nice defensive typing. Okay fine, Heatran can play the mind game of Substitute and Fire Blast it to oblivion... oh you said it was nerfed to 110 BP and Mawile might live the attack? Oops. It seems a lot of these Megas are conceptually great... but a lot of them seems to disturb balance. I understand it's the Champion kind of Pokemon that you'd want to take out immediately, but things like that is worrisome. Two modes of metagame, like the previous gen's DW/non-DW (standard) would be great in this case.

On the other hand... who thought giving Mega Gyarados part Dark typing with no good Dark STAB to use, losing resistance to Bug/Fighting/Ground and gaining a weakness to Bug/Fighting/Grass/Fairy was a good idea? I want to know >:/

And whose idea was the extra 20 Attack on Mega Gardevoir instead of Defence (because we all know Gardevoir as a mixed attacker... okay, so it has the same attack score as Pidgeot... great.). It gets OHKOd by Torterra .___.

And I hope there's something Mega Heracross can abuse with Skill Link other than Fury Attack. That's just trolling.

Some people argue that becoming Mega means losing Life Orb/Choice item powers or Leftovers, etc... but they're gaining all sorts of other stats too that may prove relevant. Mega Mewtwo Y will no longer be OHKOd by Kyogre's Water Spout in the rain after SR/LO recoil because it doesn't have the recoil and still 2HKOs back. Not to mention all that speed it gains. Totally worth it.

Balance eh? I don't think balance was the first thing that came into these people's minds, though a lot of the idea was great, such as adding Fairy type and giving Steel and Poison offensive relevancy, I'm quite skeptical. I understand their decision on the special side, though I kind of wish they'd do something about the physical side too other than being overly reliant on our new Fairy overlord. Only time will tell how the metagame will become.

EDIT: Okay cool, Mega Heracross gets Bullet Seed and Arm Thrust by Heart Scale, and Pin Missile via level up, and Rock Blast via egg move. Hmm... I still like the idea of Megahorn being its signature unfortunately and cannot get past that. However, Pin Missile's buff this gen may prove more useful than Megamiss.

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  • 2 weeks later...

So there're a couple of mons so far that look like pretty cool / interesting additions and since stats and moves are pretty much completely released I thought id talk about them a little bit.

Hawlucha

Fight / Flying

78 / 92 / 75 / 74 / 63 / 118

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Some key points:

+ Neutral SR damage / no rock weakness

+ Flying Press is a great move for removing bulky Grassers / Normals / steels

+ Can get passed the TanKing duo, making Hawlucha a good wall breaking asset.

- some sets will suffer from 4ms

- will probably find bulky waters an issue with no solid grass or electric moves to abuse.

Hawlucha is a cool little thing and from what I can see there's going to be a couple of ways to play him, which is always nice! As a foreword I'm not in a position to be able to actual calcs so I unfortunately won't be able to back a whole lot up, so ill keep absurd claims to a minimum.

Set one:

Physical

Hawlucha @ life orb / choice scarf / choice band

4 hp / 252 atk / 252 Spe

Adamant / Jolly

Limber

- Flying Press / Hi Jump Kick

- Stone Edge / Hi Jump Kick

- X Scissor

- Roost / U-turn

This will be pretty good for late game clean ups and generally acting as a momentum stealer.

Flying press as a nice stab that will also help in taking out bulky Grassers and other fighters, of which he'll spend most his time switching into. Plus obligatory Stab.

Stone edge for flying types switch ins, x scissor for psychic coverage and depending on the item roost or u turn make great 4th moves. Roost will allow it to heal off LO recoil and potential damage taken from missed HKJ, and somewhat mitigates the SR weakness, u turn works great for scouting purposes and general momentum stealing, thus putting Grassers in a bind.

I would argue that with nature you can run adamant regardless of item due to its high base speed allowing to outspeed max speed base 100's anyway, with jolly that extends to base 115. Choice band sets will hit very hard and scarf sets will be very fast, all depends on what you need.

Lead / stall breaker.

Hawlucha @ Life orb / Lum Berry

4 hp / 252 atk / 252 Spe

Jolly

Limber / unburden

- Taunt

- U turn

- Flying Press

- Stone Edge / toxic

All that's needed to disrupt most stallers and walls, get in, mess it up and get out. Coverage does suffer somewhat on this set and it will definitely miss roost, 4ms hurts this guy.

Set up sweeper

Hawlucha @ life orb

4 hp / 252 atk / 252 Spe

Jolly

Limber

- Swords Dance

- Flying Press

- Stone edge

- x scissor

This set aims to force a switch, SD up and attack with its blistering speed and high atk. I think this set will be really good for late game sweeping once bulky waters and their kin have been taken out of the equation. Taunt could be used again on this set to ensure that phasers don't ruin his sweep. A combination of unburden and fight gem could also really help him, ensuring that scarfers don't ruin his sweep.

Potential checks / counters: lati twins, Gyarados, Skarmory, Gliscor, Jirachi, Donphan et al

Good team mates would be Heracross who can take out psychics and loosen up walls with a similar attacking style. Jolteon / insert quick electric here provides good defensive synergy and can take out flyers and usually come out on top against Gliscor and the like with hidden power ice. Lastly Jirachi would be a good team mate for luring out mons like Gliscor and OHKO with ice punch / hp ice, she also provides good defensive synergy and can provide wish support for ease of switching in.

Barbaracle

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Rock / water

72 / 105 / 115 / 54 / 86 / 68

Key points:

+ Razor shell in the rain has 165 BP (assuming x1.2 boost with tough claws)

+ great tanking stats

+ access to shell smash, swords dance and rock polish

+ tough claws and a great physical move pool

+ ability to abuse rain and sand

- 4x weak to grass

Shell smash

Barbaracle @ white herb / life orb

252 atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

Adamant / naughty

- shell smash

- razor shell

- Stone edge / rock slide

- Hidden power [fire / ice] / x scissor / earthquake

This guy has got bulk enough to pull this set off at a moment's notice and has coverage enough to really work it. Razor shell will be the stab move of choice as from what I can gather it doesn't get waterfall, stone edge is secondary stab which has great coverage razor shell and the last move is for picking off specific walls, fire for Ferrothorn, ice for Gliscor, X scissor for bulky Grassers / psychics (a la Latin twins) and earthquake is another option to utilise QuakeEdge (though its quite redundant as what's covered by EQ is also covered by SE and razor shell).

Potential checks would be Skarmory, Ferrothorn, Scizor, Starmie, hitmontop, Conkledurr and Empoleon to name a few.

Good team mates as such would be magnezone for trapping purposes, and the lati twins should be able to deal with the non steels and would also lend a hand with defensive synergy (albeit one sided)

(More to come... Again)

Edited by Tbird
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Those two above look like they should have been Pokemon in BW. What in the world is Binacle? And another speed creep? Joy.

Also it is notable that Flying Press is the only dual typed move we know of so far. And Hawlucha gets it. Eh.

Anyways I might as well cover more Pokemon too.

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Aegislash

Type: Steel/Ghost

Stats (tentative):

Aegis Form: 60/50/150/50/150/60

Slash Form: 60/150/50/150/50/60

Ability: Stance Change: Changes stance during battle depending on your moves. Aegislash starts at Shield Form by default, and will switch to Blade form when it uses any Attack. Only the specific move King's Shield converts it back to Shield form.

Traits:

+ Aegislash starts out tanky, meaning it can take punishments while setting up Swords Dances

+ Both of its Attack stats are enough to give it a great wallbreaking role

+ Destroys Fairies and does very well against the likes of Lucario or Blaziken without Earthquake or Fire Blast

+ Learns Sacred Sword, which gives it a much helpful Fighting type coverage and breaks through Defence boosts

+ Has priority in form of Shadow Sneak, cleaning up a lot of foes

+ King's Shield strikes fear into most physical attackers, and allows it to mitigate against Pursuit users

+ Resistant to Stealth Rock

- Very predictable, although it is good at what it does. Therefore, it is heavily reliant on prediction skills, or else it may cost you the game (though this applies to everything in general)

- Like most ghosts, it is "lifeless" and hence low HP to offset its high HP, requiring high HP investment

- Weak to Pursuit (mitigated by King's Shield however)

- King's Shield does not protect against status such as Will-o-Wisp, which is very detrimental

- King's Shield does not lower the Attack of Sucker Punch, as it fails if that happens

- King's Shield only works against Contact moves, which does not help against Earthquake users, as they hit Aegislash super effectively WITHOUT triggering the - 2 Attack

- Taunt can stop it from using King's Shield and Sword Dance

- Suffers from 4 moveslot syndrome if running King's Shield + Swords Dance

Notable moves: King's Shield, Swords Dance, Shadow Claw, Shadow Sneak, Sacred Sword, Iron Head, Flash Cannon, Shadow Ball, Pursuit, Autotomise, Fury Cutter (meh)

Notable items: Leftovers, Life Orb, Lum Berry, Air Balloon, Spell Tag / Spooky Plate (I use this on mine)

Aegislash, I imagine, will make a great impact in OU, thanks to its typing and its role. At long last, there is a Pokemon that has Darmanitan's Zen Mode, except actually functional and quite fun to try out. Although it requires careful management, Aegislash would make a fine wallbreaker or something that can stop Pokemon that like to use contact moves most of the time thanks to King's Shield, which is its signature move that protects against damage, but reduces the foe's attack by TWO stages if it used a contact move. It is quite promising, but unfortunately, most people know what it does and will try to work around it. Nonetheless, it is a threat to a lot of Pokemon such as Scizor and if used right, is going to drive people insane. I know I've already did through my random Wifi battles with Japanese and some other people alike, and it really did end up destroying them because nobody was adequately prepared to face it. However, do not overly rely on Aegislash: as it is quite easy to counter if your opponent is skilled enough and knows what they are doing. Nonetheless, Aegislash is a very effective Pokemon and has made itself notable amongst many, as I've had mirror matches with some as well.

The set I use (do not use this unless you know what you are doing):

Aegislash @ Spell Tag

Relaxed Nature

252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def

- Swords Dance

- King's Shield

- Iron Head

- Shadow Sneak

This is my in-game Aegislash, and although its set looks really nice, it can be played around quite easily, which is why I generally do not bring it out until later when I'm sure it can deal with everybody left or if I'm quite sure how I should go about this. Anyways, King's Shield is for the Shield form change (I don't really care much for the - 2 Atk: it's the bonus feature, not exactly its main feature, which is putting it into Shield mode, allowing it to set up enough SDs), and then start STAB Shadow Sneaking things while weakened (it still OHKOs most Psychics) and Iron Heading the bulkier Pokemon (King Shield to protect from attack or scouting). When it becomes automatically Attack Mode, it is quite vulnerable thanks to those pitiful Defences. Therefore, King's Shield here is imperative. But why am I not suggesting this? For one... Shadow Sneak is weak. VERY WEAK. I don't care if you have 150 Atk or STAB in it, it isn't going to KO much things. Even after + 3, Shadow Sneak failed to OHKO Mega Blaziken, trolling me by leaving it at red HP (that's why I'm using Spell Tag now, and it is my in-game Pokemon anyways, but still very effective for me). True, you can use entry hazards and all, but asides from hardcore people, I don't know many people who are running super competitive Pokemon atm in Pokemon XY (though I encountered scary Japanese players with Mega Mawile or Mega Kangaskhan... *shudders*). Thank God for Pidgeot and Featherdance... trololol. But in simulators, it is a different story: I would advise against weaker moves such as this by itself. If you run this kind of set, don't run Shadow Sneak, as it is easily countered, unless you have a plan to use this late game and sweep (but don't always count on it). It is effective if you can play through it, but I don't think relying on Shadow Sneak is ideal. It does work for me, however, and really made people hate Aegislash. Instead, do this:

Aegislash @ Leftovers

Adamant Nature (it can be tailored to either Brave / Relaxed / Sassy / etc)

252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def (you can also invest in Defence instead of Attack if you'd like)

- King's Shield

- Swords Dance / Iron Head / Sacred Sword

- Sacred Sword / Iron Head

- Shadow Claw

You can see it is rather begging for more than 4 moveslots (then it'd have a justification to run Shadow Sneak). However, this is how you make a wallbreaking or set-up Aegislash, as Sacred Sword provides better coverage than Iron Head. However, Iron Head has STAB and can cause flinch against those slower bulkymon in a pinch (but please do NOT switch into Hippowdon or the likes: you are just asking to be KOd), and it faints Fairies, so choose as you please. Shadow Claw is great coverage, and is no longer resisted by Steels, hitting them quite hard, along with having extra critical chance. That, and it is Aegislash's best STAB option asides from Iron Head, from the physical side at least. However, sometimes Shadow Sneak would be quite useful for hitting first. I just wish there was some way to fit it in. Then there's this, which was discussed by Smogon...

Aegislash @ Life Orb

252 SAtk / 252 Atk / 4 HP

Quiet Nature

- Shadow Ball

- Iron Head

- Sacred Sword

- Shadow Sneak

This is the kind that wallbreaks, as it actually utilises its 150 SpA as well as its 150 Attack, hitting Specially weak Pokemon with STAB Shadow Ball for reliable STAB (doesn't hit normals though), which is why there's coverage. Using Shadow Sneak finishes off the foes that are weakened or so. This one is more risky as there is no King's Shield, making it more susceptible to Pursuit / Sucker Punch trapping, so beware of that. There's also no investment in HP, and so only use this when you are sure such threats are out. A lot of people expect King's Shield, so this kind of set can surprise people. There are ways to use Autotomize as well, but I have not really thought of it, but do remember that 60 Speed is actually salvageable and will still catch people by surprise. It's probably interchangeable with Swords Dance, as carrying three set up moves is less than ideal. Some people argue King's Shield is a liability and should not be run, but I don't quite agree with that sentiment, as with proper prediction and such, it can be very useful.

Counters to Aegislash include bulky Grounds, such as Hippowdon, who can tank a lot of its attacks and go ahead and use STAB Earthquake, and recover any damage with Slack Off. It can also Roar it out to remove any boosts Aegislash has obtained. Landorus-T is in a similar vein, as it can use Intimidate to lower Aegislash's Attack, also forcing it out thanks to Earthquake's threat. Other bulky Pokemon such as Swampert can also work. Bulky Waters also tank Aegislash's moves, such as one of its STAB typing (Steel). A lot of them also run Special attacks, and don't even care about King's Shield, while they can happily spam Scald hoping to burn, or in Vaporeon's or Empoleon's case, Roar. Empoleon must watch out for Sacred Sword, however. Heatran can either burn it with STAB Fire Blast, burn it with Will-o-Wisp, or phaze it out. It, too, has to watch out for Sacred Sword. Prankster users with Will-o-Wisp, like Sableye, can really mess up Aegislash because King's Shield does not protect against status. Foul Play also hurts it a lot, especially when STABd. Talonflame can play mind games, and if it actually gets to set up Swords Dance, can Flare Blitz Aegislash, or Will-o-Wisp through a predicted King's Shield. It cannot switch in directly. Strangely, its pre-evolution, Doublade, can work quite well too. While it doesn't switch in directly, it can Swords Dance while surviving a Shadow Claw and KO back with Shadow Sneak.

Speaking of Doublade, if you are not abusing Aegislash's King Shield or its mixed attacking prowess, you have little reason to use it over Doublade, who can possess superior physical Defence thanks to Eviolite, and similar Attacking power, and unlike Aegislash, doesn't lose its Defences when attacking (asides from being very weak specially). Such set would be:

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Doublade @ Eviolite

Adamant Nature

252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def

No Guard

- Swords Dance

- Sacred Sword

- Iron Head / Shadow Claw

- Shadow Sneak

Another notable option is Fury Cutter. You know how it is terrible when Fury Cutter misses, ruining its power up? Well, Doublade has No Guard, which means it will never miss with that move. In this gen, it starts off at 40 Base Power. However, it is unreliable in the sense that its power resets once you switch moves or switch out (which might be often). So be careful if going that route. Still works wonders in-game.

Anyways, that's all I am writing for now, as Aegislash really did help me win many battles through proper playing. It is a nicely designed Pokemon, both aesthetically (though I really hate all that demonic occultic symbology on it...) and conceptually. It is a fun Pokemon to try out, so do use it when you get the chance to. Oh, and Honedge is one of the better Pokemon in game, I believe. I have been using it, and it can single handedly destroy every gym and reliably sit comfortably in your team spot, much like Staraptor from DPP or Scyther from HGSS. Yes, it completely trolls the third gym (not even the leader has anything to hit it). I used it in X version and accidentally broke the whole game with it. I may not use that in Y version if I ever get it, seeing how much utility it had.

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Will update more later. And I wonder how Honedge will do in LC. That thing will be a killer, and probably really hurt poor Misdreavus. It will most likely play very similarly to Doublade anyways.

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