need a bit of a starting push.

[ichidansan]

I really just play pokemon games for the story, or when I just need something to pass the time.

but Im thinking about starting Competitive battle. Hopefully this isn't TLTR

the main Pokemon I want to use is Umbreon.

I have a set in mind for it, but not completely sure how it would go, or if it's even possible.

Umbreon ~Synchronise~

Item:Leftovers/maybe life orb or wise glasses

Payback

Moonlight

Stored Power

Curse

Nature: Sassy(+SPD/-Sp) or Quiet(+SPA/-Sp) with 252 on HP and ATK

I figure the Curse/payback for stab and the payback bonus after a few slowdowns from curse.

And I really don't want to use the stalling umbreon (toxic,wish,protect,"dark move") and i know that it's not all that offensive.

I also figured that Curse and Stored Power would work good together as if im correct, by gaining attack and defense it would get a 20/20 boost in power giving it 60 power after one curse as it's a base of 20.

and is it possible to breed in curse and stored power? can i do it at the same time? or is it not possible at all to have both.

[wraith89]

This isn't quite the team rating thread: I think there's a small questions thread someplace in the Competitive Battling section.

Also, Umbreon prefers having all the defence it needs, as it is a tank. ALWAYS run Leftovers on Umbreon: it does not want anything else.

Try a Sassy nature with 252 HP / 6 Def / 252 SpDef, as Umbreon buffs its defence and attack with Curse anyhow. I would not recommend trying to set up against Fighters in general. I think I ran 252 HP / 164 Def / 92 SpDef in Gen IV for some reason, but in this competitive metagame, everything hits too hard.

Umbreon is not going really far with an offensive set though. Moonlight as a recovery move in general is bad, due to its limited PP, and how it is easily destroyed by the most common weather: Sand. Any other weather such as Rain also ruins it as well: the only one that helps Moonlight is Sunlight, which, unfortunately, is the least used. Wish + Protect or Rest + Sleep Talk is usually the better choice here. Rest + Sleep Talk is discouraged though due to it taking up 2 moveslots and the fact that the sleep counter now resets in BW metagame: you switch out, Umbreon will still sleep for 2 extra turns. But generally, Curse / Payback / Rest / Sleep Talk was that offensive Umbreon set.

Umbreon is also super vulnerable to status like Toxic. Yeah, of course Synchronise could discourage it, but something like a Tentacruel or a Heatran using Toxic means the end for Umbreon. Not to mention Toxic Spikes can be very painful.

You are able to breed Curse and Stored Power if a Smeargle has both of them. I wouldn't quite recommend Stored Power as it can get easily walled by another Dark type and Steels in general, but if you must, it is available.

Due to all the problems I have listed, you really need to make a team that can safeguard this Umbreon from such maladies. You need tons of support, and in this metagame, Bugs, Fighters, and Steels run amok: so using that Umbreon will be incredibly difficult.

By the way, Umbreon can learn Foul Play in B2W2, which means it really does not need to run an offensive set. It is not a main player, but provides good support. Umbreon is really best used as a support Pokemon: Wish/Heal Bell/Toxic (Payback/Foul Play)/Protect is really the best it can do ...

[ichidansan]

Ah, I see, so sad for my favorite poke. well thanks for all the feedback. If he really cant be an attacking poke then I guess I would have to use him for support. but i do have to ask

would a Snarl/Charm/Wish/Protect work? or is that just too much of a leap. if not I will probably stick with the Wish/Heal Bell/Foul Play/Protect you suggested.

[wraith89]

Well if you destroy all potential threats (Fighters/Bugs/Steels), lay out some Stealth Rocks, Umbreon with a bunch of Curse set up with Resttalk and Payback can deal loads of damage vs opponent, possibly sweeping, but yeah, Umbreon's stat spread clearly was not designed to be offensive.

Snarl/Charm sounds fun actually: I never thought of that, but because Critical Hits and Toxic exists, it is less than practical. Just run the Wish/Heal Bell set instead: Foul Play will be nasty against those Haxorus who insist on setting up Dragon Dances (you would do well to invest more in Physical Defence in this case, since the Overused metagame is predominantly physical), but Umbreon's main role is passing large HP recovery with Wish (make sure you max its HP) and Healing status. It is one of the best wishpasser and cleric available next to Chansey / Blissey, except Chansey / Blissey with Wish was an event Pokemon from Gen III, so it is hard to come by. The other alternative is Umbreon's cousin, Vaporeon.

Other options include Taunt (shuts Reuniclus down) and Toxic (what else is better than frustrating and stalling the other guy to death?), but as you can see, it is hard to fit in.

Also, it is a toss-up between Payback and Foul Play: Foul Play is nice and all, but it does nothing against things like Blissey and things that generally run - Atk (namely special attackers). And it still will not touch Fighters.

[ichidansan]

haha, glad the snarl/charm amused you =). I was thinking about using a Togekiss with Lucky Chant/Heal Bell/(magic coat/wish)/(silverwind/Hyperbeam) for suport. so start with togekiss, use lucky chant then wish to Umbreon and go from there. or is togekiss a light weight for that kind of support?

[wraith89]

Togekiss is much too versatile to be doing things like that: it has a lot of better things to do, such as Paraflinching and being bulky and stuff. Also, never run moves like Hyper Beam: that is just a death sentence on your part. Lucky Chant would be good, but the time duration is a turn off: a stalling Pokemon like Umbreon will not do much before 4 turns are over.

Competitive Battling Basics

Try to look up what kinds of sets typical people run certain Pokemon before making sets though. It's nice to be original, but you need to use a Pokemon according to its strengths: http://www.smogon.com/bw/pokemon/

[Note: Smogon did NOT update their sets to B2W2]

^--- you don't need to follow exactly how these people put up their sets, but it gives you a general idea how certain people run some Pokemon. I don't particularly agree with the 252/252 EV treatment on some Pokemon.

Then you can start making a team with a designated role for each Pokemon and how you win.

[ichidansan]

alright, thanks for all the advice. Im reading the competitive guide you wrote so hopefully I will learn from it.