speculation Pokémon HeartGold and SoulSilver Speculation Thread

[DanteKoriyu]

1.) 100% kanto confirmation. (Nay sayers be damned. =P)

A.) Vermillion Port has glass floors with the water moving beneath it.

B.) Magnet Train (In Kanto, or coming from Kanto) looks awesome in 3D for a Pokemon game.

2.) Pokewalker will have a Wi-Fi event soon after HGSS release. There will be a course downloadable to HGSS to be uploaded to the Pokewalker called the Yellow Forest/Yellow Course. This area will be filled with nothing but Pikachu, and some/(all?) will have a special move(s?). The move is currently unknown.

http://www.filb.de/1122

[Guested]

Yeah, you beat me to it.

The station for the magnet train looks like a Shinkansen station, by the way.

Also, the train design itself looks almost exactly like the Shinkansen trains.

[DanteKoriyu]

I noticed that.

It was nice to see Pokemon Sunday reveal "new" information before another source this time around, even though it was fairly limited this week.

I'm also pretty excited for CoroCoro this month. The early release is great, but that also means that there will probably be a longer dry spell after that.

[Klaatu]

I just came back from vacation (an extraordinary awakening seminar btw xP) and found out that johtodex numbers for Growlithe and Lapras are known and they are different!

Anyone remember how much I speculated about what would be changed in it in order to make it an actual regional pokedex? Yay, I can continue DX

So,

Growlithe and Arcanine's number are +2 (what about Houndour getting squashed in before? =D)

Lapras is originally before the fossils at 219, but now it's number is 224 which was previously the last fossil, Aerodactyl, right before Snorlax.

So I was right about leaving fossils out (and probably Kanto starters/legends)? D:

If yes, it means that the Dex continues after Snorlax like that (btw Snorlax is 1 of those last before pseudo/legends in dexes):

225 Snorlax

226 Raikou

227 Entei

228 Suicune

229 Larvitar

230 Pupitar

231 Tyranitar

232 Lugia

233 Ho-oh

234 Celebi

looks crap.

UNTIL you get the idea they might have put Larvitar earlier in the game and therefore also in the dex (like Gible for example)!

228 Suicune

229 Lugia

230 Ho-oh

231 Celebi

Now that looks much better

This would mean that 20 Kantos would be left out:

fossils 5

starters 9

legends 5

= 19

The missing one should be obvious: Kangaskhan, as it's one of those 4 lines that appear exclusively in a single area in Kanto, and of course the only one of them with 1 stage.

[DanteKoriyu]

We have no idea what is actually going on with the Dex now. All we know is Growlithe, Arcanine, and Lapras are further back in the Dex than before. There is no proof anything was taken out, though certain Pokemon may have been reorganized now. Not saying they aren't taking anything out, the Kanto starters and legends are about pointless in there unless we are given a Kanto starter by Oak and a chance at the Kanto Legends later on, but they don't need to be in the Dex for that, tis what the National version is for.

Though the little information that we have right now doesn't support your Larvitar theory, as that line has 3 Pokemon and the number shift is only by 2. If anything, this is only proof that the Dex may have been expanded, like it needs it. lol It was the largest Regional Dex we've had so far.

[Mewtwo Ex]

I have seen a page of the supposed magazine. Not confirming that it is real since the early date.

In the image is shown Spear Pillar.

Groundon is shown inn the top right section of the image.

And Rayquaza in the bottom right corner and Kyogre at the bottom left side.

A contest dressing of a Feraligatr is shown in the left side of the center.

And in the middle is shown Gold walking up to the Male Sapphire/Ruby character.(near him there is a torchic.)

In the top left is shown a battle between them.

I hope it is finally revealed the location of the Rayquaza event. Maybe a tiny part of Hoenn will be available.

[Klaatu]

We have no idea what is actually going on with the Dex now. All we know is Growlithe, Arcanine, and Lapras are further back in the Dex than before. There is no proof anything was taken out, though certain Pokemon may have been reorganized now. Not saying they aren't taking anything out, the Kanto starters and legends are about pointless in there unless we are given a Kanto starter by Oak and a chance at the Kanto Legends later on, but they don't need to be in the Dex for that, tis what the National version is for.

Though the little information that we have right now doesn't support your Larvitar theory, as that line has 3 Pokemon and the number shift is only by 2. If anything, this is only proof that the Dex may have been expanded, like it needs it. lol It was the largest Regional Dex we've had so far.

Well, they surely didn't put the fossils before Lapras right? This means that something was put before Lapras which wasn't originally. If you also agree with the logical conclusion that they're not any of the legends, then the ONLY possible lines are Dratini and Larvitar.

This is 100% logical and obvious, with the info we have.

Btw the Kanto legends and starters despite not being catchable in Johto, are used by important NPCs like Lance with his Charizard and Aerodactyl.

But what would be the point of fossils not remaining on their numbers if not because they're taken out?

And yeah 251 Pokemon is huge for 1 region. That's probably why they change it a bit and probably exclude the 20 Pokes to make it into 231 or 230, which is at least nearer to Pt's SinnohDex (210).

[DanteKoriyu]

I have seen a page of the supposed magazine. Not confirming that it is real since the early date.

In the image is shown Spear Pillar.

.............

I hope it is finally revealed the location of the Rayquaza event. Maybe a tiny part of Hoenn will be available.

You could have provided the image. :\ I really doubt its true, but its still fun to look at these things.

Well, they surely didn't put the fossils before Lapras right? This means that something was put before Lapras which wasn't originally. If you also agree with the logical conclusion that they're not any of the legends, then the ONLY possible lines are Dratini and Larvitar.

This is 100% logical and obvious, with the info we have.

Btw the Kanto legends and starters despite not being catchable in Johto, are used by important NPCs like Lance with his Charizard and Aerodactyl.

But what would be the point of fossils not remaining on their numbers if not because they're taken out?

And yeah 251 Pokemon is huge for 1 region. That's probably why they change it a bit and probably exclude the 20 Pokes to make it into 231 or

230, which is at least nearer to Pt's SinnohDex (210).

I have no idea what they did or what they are planning. Only the developers know right now. They may have placed the Fossil Pokemon at a lower number than before. Why? I dunno, but they could have done it just because they felt like it. Lapras is shifted back by 5 after all, same number of Fossil Pokes. =P It is definitely off no matter how you look at it though, If you take out the Larvitar or Dratini line to be put in front of Lapras, where do the other two Pokemon come from to fill the gap? Both lines can't fit into the area, unless 6 can now fit in a space of 5. I do agree that the Legends are either staying put, or they are going to scrunch them all together at the end, not push them forward.

I know the Pokemon are used by important NPCs, but that doesn't mean they can't change the teams around to not include them. Lets be honest, if they do remove them from the Dex like you are suggesting, then they won't be in those NPCs teams. As no trainer has ever used a Pokemon from outside the Regional Dex until after the Elite 4.

Whats the point of rearranging the Dex to take Pokemon out in the first place? If they are taking them out, simply because they are for the most part irrelevant at the time, then why not fill the empty spaces with the 2nd Gen's new evolutions? Gamefreak doesn't always make sense with their actions.

We aren't even able to see like half of the Pokemon until we hit Kanto in the old games. I don't see why they didn't either just keep the old Dex unaltered, or heavily shorten it to just include the local Johto Pokemon and upgrade for the National Dex after the Elite 4 like normal. Nothing they are doing is logical. -.- Stupid Gamefreak.....I will forever waste my money on your strange decisions.

-------------------------

BTW, Single greatest post on Serebii EVAR.

http://www.serebiiforums.com/showpost.php?p=10179066&postcount=2287

The image in the post is supposedly the preview for next weeks Pokemon Sunday HGSS segment. If you pay attention to the first Legendary on the chart, its Mewtwo. Now, I don't personally know for a fact what they segment it talking about, it may just be about the main Legends of the generations, but all of the Pokemon on the chart, save Mewtwo, are obtainable in HGSS. I'm REALLY wanting this to be a Mewtwo confirmation.

[Mewtwo Ex]

You could have provided the image. :\ I really doubt its true, but its still fun to look at these things.

I would have but it was a video and the owner removed it yesterday, and the one before it that supposedly had a Hoenn map in it, removed also.

EDIT: I found someone upload the same video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ya2ED9jah_Y&feature=channel

Edited August 2, 2009 by Mewtwo Ex

[Klaatu]

I figured out why Growlithe is placed +2.

All the 4th gen new pre/evolutions for the Pokemon coming before Growlithe, can be excluded by not making the reqs for their evolution/breeding available, EXCEPT for 2:

Yanma and Aipom.

For those they'd have to either:

-make them not learn the needed moves

-go the FRLG "oh it stopped evolving" way

Both are crap so they leave those in.

It's obvious then that this will also hold true for Lickitung and Tangela (and Piloswine if the move relearner is available pre national dex)

So my most logical prediction at this time would be this:

001 Chikorita

002 Bayleef

003 Meganium

004 Cyndaquil

005 Quilava

006 Typhlosion

007 Totodile

008 Croconaw

009 Feraligatr

010 Pidgey

011 Pidgeotto

012 Pidgeot

013 Spearow

014 Fearow

015 Hoothoot

016 Noctowl

017 Rattata

018 Raticate

019 Sentret

020 Furret

021 Pichu

022 Pikachu

023 Raichu

024 Caterpie

025 Metapod

026 Butterfree

027 Weedle

028 Kakuna

029 Beedrill

030 Ledyba

031 Ledian

032 Spinarak

033 Ariados

034 Geodude

035 Graveler

036 Golem

037 Zubat

038 Golbat

039 Crobat

040 Cleffa

041 Clefairy

042 Clefable

043 Igglybuff

044 Jigglypuff

045 Wigglytuff

046 Togepi

047 Togetic

048 Sandshrew

049 Sandslash

050 Ekans

051 Arbok

052 Dunsparce

053 Mareep

054 Flaaffy

055 Ampharos

056 Wooper

057 Quagsire

058 Gastly

059 Haunter

060 Gengar

061 Unown

062 Onix

063 Steelix

064 Bellsprout

065 Weepinbell

066 Victreebel

067 Hoppip

068 Skiploom

069 Jumpluff

070 Paras

071 Parasect

072 Poliwag

073 Poliwhirl

074 Poliwrath

075 Politoed

076 Magikarp

077 Gyarados

078 Goldeen

079 Seaking

080 Slowpoke

081 Slowbro

082 Slowking

083 Oddish

084 Gloom

085 Vileplume

086 Bellossom

087 Drowzee

088 Hypno

089 Abra

090 Kadabra

091 Alakazam

092 Ditto

093 Pineco

094 Forretress

095 Nidoran

096 Nidorina

097 Nidoqueen

098 Nidoran

099 Nidorino

100 Nidoking

101 Yanma

102 Yanmega

103 Sunkern

104 Sunflora

105 Exeggcute

106 Exeggutor

107 Sudowoodo

108 Wobbuffet

109 Venonat

110 Venomoth

111 Scyther

112 Scizor

113 Pinsir

114 Heracross

115 Koffing

116 Weezing

117 Grimer

118 Muk

119 Magnemite

120 Magneton

121 Voltorb

122 Electrode

123 Aipom

124 Ambipom

125 Snubbull

126 Granbull

127 Vulpix

128 Ninetales

129 Growlithe

130 Arcanine

131 Stantler

132 Marill

133 Azumarill

134 Diglett

135 Dugtrio

136 Mankey

137 Primeape

138 Meowth

139 Persian

140 Psyduck

141 Golduck

142 Machop

143 Machoke

144 Machamp

145 Tyrogue

146 Hitmonlee

147 Hitmonchan

148 Hitmontop

149 Girafarig

150 Tauros

151 Miltank

152 Magby

153 Magmar

154 Smoochum

155 Jynx

156 Elekid

157 Electabuzz

158 Mr. Mime

159 Smeargle

160 Farfetch'd

161 Natu

162 Xatu

163 Qwilfish

164 Tentacool

165 Tentacruel

166 Krabby

167 Kingler

168 Shuckle

169 Staryu

170 Starmie

171 Shellder

172 Cloyster

173 Corsola

174 Remoraid

175 Octillery

176 Chinchou

177 Lanturn

178 Seel

179 Dewgong

180 Lickitung

181 Lickilicky

182 Tangela

183 Tangrowth

184 Eevee

185 Vaporeon

186 Jolteon

187 Flareon

188 Espeon

189 Umbreon

190 Horsea

191 Seadra

192 Kingdra

193 Dratini

194 Dragonair

195 Dragonite

196 Gligar

197 Delibird

198 Swinub

199 Piloswine

200 Teddiursa

201 Ursaring

202 Phanpy

203 Donphan

204 Larvitar

205 Pupitar

206 Tyranitar

207 Mantine

208 Skarmory

209 Doduo

210 Dodrio

211 Rhyhorn

212 Rhydon

213 Murkrow

214 Houndour

215 Houndoom

216 Slugma

217 Magcargo

218 Sneasel

219 Misdreavus

220 Porygon

221 Porygon2

222 Chansey

223 Blissey

224 Lapras

225 Snorlax

226 Raikou

227 Entei

228 Suicune

229 Lugia

230 Ho-oh

231 Celebi

For more accuracy we only need info about:

-where the move relearner is (if pre natdex then Mamoswine gets in also, but unlikely)

-if Dratini and Larvitar line go somewhere else in the dex than where I put them (they're definitely before 224 and after 130)

-which of the common Kanto pokes will be left out (the rock tunnel ones for sure, like Kanga and Cubone, maybe Diglett also...)

otherwise everything should be like above (which is mostly the original Johtodex anyway).

Edited August 4, 2009 by Guested
spoiler'd

[Guested]

I keep getting more and more excited for this game.

But, I really hope they don't leave out a lot of the new features that they implemented in Platinum.

For example, it looks like you can battle Brendan, but... if it's only once, how lame would that be? Hopefully they'll include something like Platinum's Battleground where you can re-battle the Gym leaders (16 to encounter!) and other NPCs (Kimono girls, perhaps? Red?)

Also, the neat graphical touches like the slightly varied background and menu colorations based on where you are, and WHO you are battling (like the Elite Four looked great).

And I'm not particularly interested in the contests being in Johto...

They left them out of Kanto in FRLG, so... why do we need them in Johto? Oh well, I guess it's good for the people who like them.

[DanteKoriyu]

Klaatu, once again, not saying it won't happen, but I'm still kinda playing Devil's Advocate here.

Your Dex theory is still based on too much speculation. Every region, the Dex's Pokemon get updated level up movesets. All the Pokemon that evolve via attack may very well not have the move in their set at all in HGSS. There are other questionable changes you made too. Its obvious that they aren't above modding the Dex now, but to what extent and why are still unknown until the game's release.

BTW, your Dex list is huge. A spoiler tag would have been nice. lol

------

Guested, I agree for the most part on everything. I don't really like a contests, and a battleground for other trainers/gym leaders (besides Red, he's a hermit and should stay in the mountains. lol).

Edited August 3, 2009 by DanteKoriyu

[Klaatu]

Klaatu, once again, not saying it won't happen, but I'm still kinda playing Devil's Advocate here.

Your Dex theory is still based on too much speculation. Every region, the Dex's Pokemon get updated level up movesets. All the Pokemon that evolve via attack may very well not have the move in their set at all in HGSS. There are other questionable changes you made too. Its obvious that they aren't above modding the Dex now, but to what extent and why are still unknown until the game's release.

BTW, your Dex list is huge. A spoiler tag would have been nice. lol

Yep.

Ok I rethought this. What happened to stuff after Lapras really is too far.

But I'm sure about the lv.up move evolutions being in.

Yanmega

Ambipom

-Growlithe is +2

Tangrowth

Lickilicky

Mamoswine

-Lapras is +5

Does anyone have any reason why GF would leave Pokemon which are not seen till very late/uncatchable in GS? I mean stuff like

-Kangaskhan (exclusive to Rock Tunnel),

-Cubone(same),

-Diglett(exclusive to Diglett Cave),

-Snorlax,

-legends,

-fossils(no fossils appear in 2 regional pokedexes anyway)

-Kanto starters (same)

spoiler doesn't seem to work the ways I know of ):

[DanteKoriyu]

just put the / before the word on the second tag.

I honestly don't know what they are doing with the Dex, and to me, it really doesn't matter either. As long as the Pokemon obtainable in Johto remain in the Dex, whatever they decide to do Pre Kanto is fine. This is exactly what the National Dex is meant for anyway.

Though I don't understand why they would add in some 4th Gen evolutions, but not all of them. Seems redundant, they can easily make all evolution methods available, or none of them. Not that it bugs me as long as, if I obtain a Shiny Stone, I can evolve my Togetic without it being in the Dex. Or something to that point.

I do have to say though. This isn't GS, its HGSS. We have no idea if they will keep all the Pokemon locations the same, or if the fossils will or won't be obtainable. Oak may very well give us a Kanto starter after defeating the Elite 4 too. We don't know what they are doing, that's what makes it fun.

[Arjun - PeeB4UGo]

I think he knows to use it as [spoiler=option]content

.

But anyways, they do need to cut down their regional dex, because 250 is way too much, especially if they decide to go the pre-DPPt way and have to catch all of the Pokémon.

... But that would be just dumb.

[InuYouki]

I think he knows to use it as [spoiler=option]content

.

But anyways, they do need to cut down their regional dex, because 250 is way too much, especially if they decide to go the pre-DPPt way and have to catch all of the Pokémon.

... But that would be just dumb.

You dont have to catch them, you just have to see them. Which was easy since all you have to do is battle with trainers. I never had an issue completing the regional dex by the time I finished the E4. I don't think them leaving it at 231 or what ever will really matter. So long as you actually play the game the right way *no hacking for stronger poke or walk throw walls*you should be fine.

[Guested]

You dont have to catch them, you just have to see them.

Yeah, we don't know this yet. This is how it was in DPP, but it wasn't like that in previous games.

It hasn't been determined how HGSS will "count" your Pokedex progress.

On another note...

UPDATE

I've updated the first post to include the newest confirmed info from Pokemon Sunday this week.

Let me know if you think I've forgotten anything.

[codemonkey85]

...It looks like you can battle Brendan...

Bwuh? Brendan, really? I had wondered if they would do this. What's your source?

But, I really hope they don't leave out a lot of the new features that they implemented in Platinum.

I am also hoping they leave in the Wi-Fi features that were added to Platinum, like the Wi-Fi Square, Poffin baking, and battle videos. I'm not too sure if there will be a Battle Frontier, but if there is, I hope they retain compatibility with Platinum in that regard as well.

Additionally, if they do their own Wi-Fi square or Union Room, I hope your Pokémon can follow you around in it.

[Guested]

Bwuh? Brendan, really? I had wondered if they would do this. What's your source?

It was in that video someone posted a little way back.

It was supposedly from leaked scans of corocoro, but who knows. It had to do with the RSE Legendary Pokemon event.

[derrick]

SO wait a minute theres hoen trainers in the video!!???? ( i cant watch it slow computer :C )

could some plese.....post a picture?

[DanteKoriyu]

Don't worry, its just a magazine screen shot in the video. Its supposedly a leak from CoroCoro, but its an obvious fake. That video has been out for going on a week now, and CoroCoro isn't even set for release till the 11th. It was WAY to early for even a leak.

[CodeBrain]

I don't know if this has been said before, but I think I might know what the "special move" is on certain Pikachu's in the Yellow Forest Event.

Look under the text box. See that Pikachu flying with balloons?

Last time I remember, Pikachu with Balloons was a symbol of a Pikachu using Fly.

Perhaps that is the special move?

[DanteKoriyu]

Yeah, it could be. We've been discussing that possibility in a couple different threads relating to the event. The Balloon Pika is definitely evidence towards Fly being the special move, but then again the Balloon Pika also appears in some promotional artwork for no apparent reason at all occasionally. We'll just have to wait an see.

I am hoping for a 4th Gen Flying Pika though.

[derrick]

yes that would be awsome i just satisfied that earge for a flying pikachu with pokemon ranch ( the ballons you unlock)

[InuYouki]

See, I don't think they would make it so easy or a flying pikachu. But seeing as how easy they made it to get surfing pikachu I could be wrong. I was thinking maybe a new move or something.