my team needs improving: please RMT and help with my improvement project

[Cyndaquil1995]

This team is meant to have moves that are super effective on any pokemon, while remaining legitimate and tournament-legal. It was formlated to win any battle, and it does well with in-game trainer/gym/elite battles. Link battles are the problem. I have NEVER won a link battle on my HeartGold, even though I am usually a great battler and have won many battles on my other games. The team is listed below and all are at level 100.

Cyndaquil @ Charcoal

Nature: Timid

Ability: Blaze

EVs: All 85

Role: To provide a good fire type in the mix.

- Headbutt

- Eruption

- Heat Wave

- Cut

Comment: This guy never leaves my side and is quite the powerhouse. The only issue is his defense.

Lucario @ Black Belt

Nature: Sassy

Ability: Steadfast

EVs: All 85

Role: To add some fighting moves in there.

- Close Combat

- Aura Sphere

- Strength

- Rock Smash

Comment: My Lucario is a pretty strong one, and has knocked out many pokemon in link battles. Provide suggestions, but he is not leaving my team.

Giratina @ Griseous Orb

Nature: Quirky

Ability: Pressure

EVs: All 85

Role: To knock out as many pokemon as possible in as few turns as possible

- Aura Sphere

- Rock Climb

- Shadow Force

- Draco Meteor

Comment: It may be considered an Uber, but it's tournament legal. I am willing to replace it with a non-Uber.

Gyarados @ Mystic Water

Nature: Quirky

Ability: Intimidate

EVs: All 85

Role: To add some water to the mix and lower attack of other pokemon with Intimidate

- Rain Dance

- Outrage

- Surf

- Hydro Pump

Comment: This is the red Gyarados that was caught at Lake of Rage. She's fairly strong, and is good in some link battles.

Claydol @ Quick Claw

Nature: Docile

Ability: Levitate

EVs: All 0, except for attack and special attack, which are both at 255

Role: To provide good defense while delivering powerful attacks

- Explosion

- Earthquake

- Psychic

- SolarBeam

Comment: of all my pokemon, I'm most likely to remove this one, due to the fact that it doesnt perform as well as I want it to.

Zapdos @ Magnet

Nature: Mild

Ability: Pressure

EVs: all 85

Role: to be a semi-powerful pokemon

- Thunder

- Rain Dance

- Charge

- Fly

Comment: It really is a weak point in my team...

Please provide suggestions on how to best improve the team!

[Tbird]

There's a thread for in game teams:

http://projectpokemon.org/forums/showthread.php?2335-Take-2-Community-Discussion-In-Game-Teams

[Cyndaquil1995]

There's a thread for in game teams:

http://projectpokemon.org/forums/showthread.php?2335-Take-2-Community-Discussion-In-Game-Teams

yes, but i'm trying to make my team better for link battles, not in-game battles

[Riolu Aura Sphere Now]

Link Battles are In-game Battles. I think what Tbird meant was that this Thread is for Shoddy Battle Teams.

[Cyndaquil1995]

Link Battles are In-game Battles. I think what Tbird meant was that this Thread is for Shoddy Battle Teams.

i see. still, it needs improving.

[Tbird]

No I don't mean that at all, link battles ... everything is for here. This team just looks a lot like an in game team. Competitive battles, be it simulated via shoddy or link battles, are welcomed here. However, this team just appears to be an in game team trying to compete.

Cyndaquil, remember this: Anything works in game, Don't expect it to work competitively though. I will gladly help you make a competitively viable team if you'd like, but this team, I'm afraid will have to stay pitted against the likes of the in-game E4.

People don't use their in game teams for competition, as many people's favourite pokes that they would use in game, get slaughtered on the competitive battleground.

[wraith89]

Ok, I swore never to get involved with competitive battling again... but I'm going to have to give you some tips. This goes for the rest of you too. The type of sets you are involving are for casual gaming. But since you want to get into the realm of competitive battling, here goes nothing.

Rule #1: Your team needs a goal (aside from "winning")

When I ask people on what their goal is, they always go "to win". Blah, forget that. I want to know the HOW not the WHAT. How will you achieve victory? How can each of your Pokemon play a specific role to help you achieve that goal of winning? Will you go offensive and try to sweep with powerful Pokemon? Or will you stall your opponent with evil defensive Pokemon and force them to cry on residual damage? Will you have a concrete team that passes stat boosts to partner Pokemon so that they can sweep? Whatever it is, you cannot just mesh six Pokemon and call it a competitive team. A team of six Unowns will not help you win, for example. They also need to cover each others' weaknesses to be truly effective. For example, an Empoleon and Gliscor works well because Gliscor can take the Electric/Ground/Fighting moves Empoleon is afraid of while Empoleon can wall Water/Ice moves Gliscor hates and hurt bulky waters with a Grass Knot. It's just a few examples.

Rule #2: Know your Pokemon

Pokemon have something we call stats. In order to use a Pokemon effectively, you have to see which of its stats are the best and how to take advantage of it. For example, you can see Gyarados has a high Attack power and decent speed and defenses but low Special Attack, so it is best to take advantage of its raw ATTACK power. It also learns physical attack moves to back it up, such as WATERFALL or EARTHQUAKE. Despite how it learns a plethora of SPECIAL ATTACKS like HYDRO PUMP or FIRE BLAST, I would not recommend teaching it that because Gyarados is far better using physical attacks than special. A Bronzong has mediocre attack power but high defenses. That means Bronzong was intended to be a WALL. It can take advantage of status moves such as TOXIC or HYPNOSIS or CONFUSE RAY and support your team with wallish moves like REFLECT or LIGHT SCREEN. Of course, it needs some form of attack, so something like EARTHQUAKE or GYRO BALL will help. Some Pokemon are more versatile than others. For example, Lucario has great ATTACK and SPECIAL ATTACK and SPEED, so one can use him as either a physical attacker, a special attacker, or a mixed attacker even. The choice is entirely up to the trainer and what kind of a role this Pokemon will perform in the team.

But stats are not everything. There's a lot of things that make up a Pokemon, such as ABILITY and TYPING. For example, Articuno has great stats to be a wall but it is not a good wall because its typing (ICE/FLYING) gives it very common weaknesses and very little resistances (it's still usable nonetheless, I love the thing to death). Gengar is weak to Ground because it is part Poison, but don't forget about that ability Levitate. Because Gengar Levitates, it cannot be hit by Ground attacks at all unless special conditions are met (we'll get to that later). Infernape has the FIRE/FIGHTING typing and can take advantage of two 120 base power STAB moves, Fire Blast and Close Combat. What is STAB? Same Type Attack Boost... which means a move with the same type as the Pokemon itself will receive a 1.5x boost. That means Infernape's Fire Blast (assuming neutrality on opponent's Pokemon), has 180 base power. Let's not forget its ability Blaze. With Blaze activated, Infernape's Fire Blast will be a lot stronger, hitting 180 * 1.5 = 270 base power attack, which is very scary. Take advantage of a Pokemon's typing and ability; they really help!

We all know that not all Pokemon were created equal. Unfortunately, some Pokemon are better than others. For example, a Staraptor is an amazing Normal/Flying bird who completely outclasses things like Pidgeot and Fearow as it has access to Intimidate and Close Combat. But how do we use Staraptor? Let's look at its stats. 120 Attack... 100 Speed... 50 SpA and not so great defenses. Okay, so we should probably try using PHYSICAL attacks on it, right? Hmmm... Brave Bird, Aerial Ace, Steel Wing, Return, there's quite a few good options for Staraptor. What about Heat Wave? Should I teach that to Staraptor? Unless you want to lose out on Staraptor's real potential, I would advise against teaching it Heat Wave as it runs on its paltry 50 Special Attack. Take advantage of that beast 120 attack power.

One thing I should note to you is that although there are gazillions of inferior versions of whatever Pokemon (let's say Gyarados... and its inferior cousin Seaking), you can still use the inferior Pokemon IF you can make it play its intended role. For example, on a rain dance team, a Seaking can very well outspeed a lot of Pokemon and hit hard with STAB Waterfall + Rain boost and Megahorn stuff like Celebi to KO them. However, to do that, you will require a lot of support. But please, don't try this with stuff like Ditto or Unown... unfortunately they just do not seem to work.

So get to know your Pokemon. Check its base stats in a website database or something and the moves it learn. Before you battle with them, you have to get to know them. Who are they? Why were they made? What does it like to do? What does it hate?

Rule #3: Know your moves

I'm going to break this down to a few sections because there is a lot to say about this...

Before that though, I hope you know what physical and special moves are. If you cannot tell... click on your move in the stats menu and check out what it is.

A Physical move has a Red Background with a Yellow Star on it.

A Special move has a Purple Background with a swirl on it.

A Black/White swirl thing indicates a SUPPORT move.

Never have more than one of the same type moves in one moveset

Hi guys! Here's my Charizard! It has Fire Blast, Flamethrower, Ember, and Blast Burn! It's the ultimate Pokemon! *dies to Blastoise* Hey what happened? How did Charizard lose? No! I don't believe it!

That Charizard was following all the rules. It was using special attacks to take advantage of its base 109 Special attack and filled with STAB Fire attacks. What went wrong? NO Coverage! This is a common mistake that new battlers have, as they like seeing a Pokemon with a lot of fire moves, let's say. It's okay in game, as I am guilty of doing that to my Flareon in game (Quick Attack, Fire Fang, Flamethrower, Fire Blast), but for competitive battling? No, you cannot do that. This Charizard will have a lot of trouble. Let's say you switched into a Venusaur to threaten it with Charizard, and you launch a Blast Burn, only to have Blastoise come in the way. How are you going to fight it? You just wasted a turn and you need to switch to a proper counter. But that Blastoise has Earthquake and Ice Beam, as it probably knows you are going to switch to an Electric Pokemon or something, he launches an Earthquake and hits that Pikachu who switched in for super effective damage, fainting it. This is why coverage is necessary. If something switches in, you want to be able to hit it for at least neutral damage (meaning 1x effective), or else you will suffer. And say you wanted "backup" fire moves because you're afraid you'll run out of PP. Good thought, but tell me, WHEN are you using Ember? You probably never will! You want to hit as hard as you can so you'll probably use Fire Blast or Flamethrower or that. What you want instead for this kind of set is to use Charizard's special attack, right? Let's give it Fire Blast, Air Slash, Focus Blast, and Dragon Pulse instead. If you want, you can replace Fire Blast with Flamethrower if you're afraid Fire Blast will miss. All right, so with this, you have a secondary STAB in Air Slash, and two extra coverage special moves. Dragon Pulse will hit dragon type Pokemon for super effective damage as they resist Fire Blast, and Focus Blast, while being a shaky move, you can at least hit those scary Tyranitars and outright KO them if it hits. You see a Tyranitar switch in, don't expect that Ember you had previously to do any better than what your Fire Blast did.

There are exceptions to this rule however. You can stick Quick Attack and Return on Staraptor, let's say. But Quick attack is weak! Yeah, but it has that good effect of going first, so you can finish off weakened Pokemon with it. Also, if you stick Overheat and Flare Blitz on Charizard, that CAN work if you are going mixed, as Flare Blitz will take care of physically frail Pokemon like Alakazam while Overheat will snuff those Specially frail Pokemon like Skarmory and Tangrowth. Just remember what you are trying to accomplish though... but for the most part, unless they're support moves, do NOT stick two of the same type moves in one moveset.

Avoid Hyper Beam and friends

But Hyper Beam rocks! It rocks in game, it rocked in RBY, but it won't rock competitively anymore. Why is that? Well, after you KOd that Steelix with a Blast Burn, you are overjoyed as the iron snake melts under the fierce power of your Charizard. But out comes that scary Tyranitar who will eat you in your face. You want to recall Charizard, but... "Charizard must recharge". What?! *Enemy Tyranitar uses Stone Edge*. You watch in terror as Tyranitar's mighty stones devour your flaming lizard quickly before anyone can say "Charizard dodge it!". See, if you use those Hyper Beam moves, you will have that huge problem of being wide open right after the initial blast, which is never a good thing. The only time you want to use Hyper Beam-esque move is if your opponent is in their last Pokemon and you want a grand finale finisher. But is that one move really worth a moveslot? A Pokemon has four moveslots... and they should ALL be spent wisely. Charizard has tons of options and shouldn't ever waste one slot for a Blast Burn. Period. Just use Fire Blast for your burning needs, as it is powerful enough to OHKO most Fire weak Pokemon anyhow. You shouldn't worry about using Blast Burn. That goes for you Hydro Cannon and Frenzy Plant fans too. And Rock Wrecker. And Roar of Time. And the original Hyper Beam... just don't do it. You'll be sorry for using that unless your opponent does not know what to do afterwards. It is mostly a liability than a boon.

Support moves are amazing

No no no. Those non damaging moves SUCK! I mean, you want to damage your opponent right? But in competitive battling, support moves are very helpful. You can set up a normally "average speed" Gyarados to become a fearsome and a terrifying guest with one move called Dragon Dance. He switches in, raises his attack and speed in just one turn, becomes faster than most Pokemon and a lot stronger than before, and hit his foes hard with STAB Waterfall and other coverage moves like Earthquake, Stone Edge, Ice Fang, or others. A move like Toxic can cripple an otherwise very formidable wall such as Milotic, who may not possess the necessary moves to recover from slowly accumulating damage in Toxic (that is unless it was a Resttalker). Using Thunder Wave can cripple speedy threats like Lucario or Infernape trying to eat up your otherwise slow team. Will-o-Wisp can hinder physical attackers like Metagross who will otherwise hit hard without a burn. An Agility can help the otherwise slow Empoleon to become a monstrously fast sweeper. Wish from Vaporeon can keep herself and her teammates alive. Stealth Rocks are very centralizing to the metagame, as that one turn you set it up can lay a permanent layer of rocks which damage almost any Pokemon that come in so you can have an easier time OHKOing-2HKOing some Pokemon. Rapid Spin can get rid of any Stealth Rock or Spike layers that would impede YOUR teammates. Substitute can help scout for opponent's moves and block other detrimental attacks like Toxic. Support moves make up a LOT of this metagame, and you should be familiar with many of them to maximize your competitive strategies.

Rule #4: Build Comprehensive EV Spreads and a Beneficial Nature

You seem to have spreads of 85 EV all over. That doesn't really work. You want to maximize at what that Pokemon does best. For example, a Fearow has nice attack power and speed, but poor defenses and special attack. So what do we do? Do the logical thing: max out its Attack and Speed! Since 1 stat is gained per 4 EVs, instead of using the maximum 255 (which isn't divisible by 4) we use 252 as our max, and 252 should go in Fearow's attack, 252 should go in Fearow's speed, and the remaining 6 EVs... meh, just stick it into defense. Doesn't really matter too much for Fearow. Those defenses are not worth investing in anyhow. Now we have a Fearow complete with maximized attack, maximized speed, but wait? BRAVE NATURE?! Oh no! What does that do? Brave seems to reduce its speed and maximize attack. That's not good... we don't want a slow Fearow. A Fearow would instead want to get rid of that one stat it will NEVER use: its Special attack. So let's try Adamant (+ Attack - SpA) or Jolly (+ Speed - SpA). And now with an Adamant/Jolly (choice is yours, but most people favor extra speed) Fearow, you have a beast who can launch Drill Peck, Return, Steel Wing, and Quick Attack to assault his foes. Fearow is a simple Pokemon with a simple build, but it gets more complex with other Pokemon, like wallish Pokemon like Skarmory. You can go ahead and maximize its HP and defense, but sometimes, you may want to invest a little into attack so its Brave Bird can OHKO/2HKO something and its speed to outspeed certain Pokemon. This will become more apparent as you go through the metagame and meet a lot of new Pokemon and new strategies.

As for natures, try NOT to have neutral natures (Serious, Hardy, Quirky, Bashful, Docile). It neither helps your Pokemon nor hinder it, but at most times, you want to boost up a stat and reduce the one stat you don't use. Skarmory does not ever use its Special attack, so you can boost up its other stats like Defense or Speed with Impish or Jolly, respectively. If you have a mixed sweeper with both physical and special attacks, you will want to reduce another stat without risking either of its attacks. But this depends for some Pokemon. For example, Infernape will NOT want to reduce its speed, as its speed is essential. You can reduce either its defense or special defense. A Swampert, though, will not want to compromise its amazing defensive capabilities so you can reduce its speed as it is not too fast anyhow. So for natures, make sure you use something beneficial and try not having neutral ones. It is hard getting the desired natures on legendaries, but soft resetting a lot can get you something desired, I'm sure. So far, I haven't found any use with Gentle (+ Def - SpDef) or Lax (+ SpDef - Def) natures.

Rule #5: Know your items

Yeah, certain items benefit a Pokemon more than others. The universal Leftovers works on wallish Pokemon like Swampert or Milotic, while the dangerous Life Orb can help with sweepers like Lucario or Infernape. Choice items, while tricky, can come in use. Choice items boost a stat but in price of locking the user in ONE attack until it switches out. A Choice Banded Heracross, for example, can eat through anything that doesn't resist its scary Megahorn or Close Combat. But if a resister like Gyarados comes in, it will have to switch out if it did not use the right attack. A Choice Scarf'd Heracross can outspeed its natural threats like Infernape and OHKO them with its STAB Close Combat. Choice items are tricky, but can well be worth it. Choice items are normally put on Pokemon that use four attack moves without any form of support (or a Trick user). It really won't matter too much anyways, as you will be bound to switch out sooner or later. If you want versatility, go with Life Orb. Life Orb, however, saps 10% of the user every time it uses a damaging attack (unless you attack a Substitute or someone immune to the move). If you hate that price, you can go with the weaker Expert Belt, which boosts 20% with super effective moves (as opposed to Life Orb's 30% and Choice item's 50%). Muscle Band boosts 20% on physical moves and Wise Glasses boosts 20% on special moves. Again, it really depends on what you favor. Certain berries can help change the tide of the battle. For example, Salac Berry can raise the user's speed when 25% HP or below. A Wacan Berry on Gyarados can help him take one Thunderbolt by weakening its power in half for one turn. Use stuff like that to your advantage.

I'll edit this with more stuff later if I can think of them. But so far... let's see what your team is lacking.

Cyndaquil @ Charcoal

Nature: Timid

Ability: Blaze

EVs: All 85

Role: To provide a good fire type in the mix.

- Headbutt

- Eruption

- Heat Wave

- Cut

Comment: This guy never leaves my side and is quite the powerhouse. The only issue is his defense.

Check Rule #2 and Rule #4. You might also consider evolving it. If that's not the case, I think the only way you'll salvage a Cyndaquil is by Baton Passing stats to it so it can become scarier than it is now. But that requires a lot of support and is hard to pull off (try if you can). Heck, that can become your team's goal: to set up Cyndaquil and help it sweep. But step 1: GET IT OFF LEAD. It's not lasting against anything if first and offers NOTHING for your team.

Lucario @ Black Belt

Nature: Sassy

Ability: Steadfast

EVs: All 85

Role: To add some fighting moves in there.

- Close Combat

- Aura Sphere

- Strength

- Rock Smash

Comment: My Lucario is a pretty strong one, and has knocked out many pokemon in link battles. Provide suggestions, but he is not leaving my team.

Rule #2: there's no coverage in this guy. All Fighting and Normal moves... and two of them being worthless competitively (Strength and Rock Smash). Stick those HMs in something like Geodude for in game use... but in competitive battling, unfortunately, HMs are bad with the exception of Waterfall and Surf. Sassy also hinders it, as it is losing valuable speed. Did you have something physical in mind? Try Close Combat/Extremespeed/Crunch/Swords Dance. If you can stick an elemental punch like Ice Punch. Special Lucario? Try Aura Sphere, Shadow Ball, erm... stuff like Dragon Pulse or Calm Mind can help. Even Vacuum Wave can help you in a pinch.

Giratina @ Griseous Orb

Nature: Quirky

Ability: Pressure

EVs: All 85

Role: To knock out as many pokemon as possible in as few turns as possible

- Aura Sphere

- Rock Climb

- Shadow Force

- Draco Meteor

Comment: It may be considered an Uber, but it's tournament legal. I am willing to replace it with a non-Uber.

Yeah it's uber... and the moves look good... except Rock Climb. Replace that with Substitute or something. The nature isn't good either, and neither are its EVs.

Gyarados @ Mystic Water

Nature: Quirky

Ability: Intimidate

EVs: All 85

Role: To add some water to the mix and lower attack of other pokemon with Intimidate

- Rain Dance

- Outrage

- Surf

- Hydro Pump

Comment: This is the red Gyarados that was caught at Lake of Rage. She's fairly strong, and is good in some link battles.

She shouldn't use special attacks. Get Dragon Dance, add Waterfall and Earthquake and Stone Edge into the mix and modify her EVs with EV reduction berries and all and you're good to go. Quirky still doesn't help either. As for the item, try something else like Leftovers or Life Orb? Maximize her attack and speed... is all I can say if you want to salvage the red Gyarados. You can replace her with a regular blue Gyarados with better stats though, which can be easier.

Claydol @ Quick Claw

Nature: Docile

Ability: Levitate

EVs: All 0, except for attack and special attack, which are both at 255

Role: To provide good defense while delivering powerful attacks

- Explosion

- Earthquake

- Psychic

- SolarBeam

Comment: of all my pokemon, I'm most likely to remove this one, due to the fact that it doesnt perform as well as I want it to.

Know your Pokemon... Rule #1. Claydol shouldn't be an all out attacker. It's best off a wall Pokemon with utility moves like Rapid Spin, Stealth Rock, and a few attacking moves. Also, Solarbeam without sun support will rarely work.

Zapdos @ Magnet

Nature: Mild

Ability: Pressure

EVs: all 85

Role: to be a semi-powerful pokemon

- Thunder

- Rain Dance

- Charge

- Fly

Comment: It really is a weak point in my team...

Try Thunderbolt, Heat Wave, Roost, and U-turn. Heat Wave is a move tutor in Pokemon Platinum. If its Hidden Power is good, replace U-turn. Also, fix those EVs! Give it Leftovers as an item.

I only rated your Pokemon as Pokemon, not a collective team. You ought to think about what's best for your team and what to accomplish. Otherwise, you will have hard time winning battles. For the most part, you may have to get fresh new Pokemon, and as Tbird pointed, people don't use their in game Pokemon in Wifi for the most part, as they are "smeared with imperfection" and "unfit for battling" (using elitist words here, do not quote me on that).

Yeah I'm done for today. A helpful resource is here.

http://www.smogon.com/

The current banlist:

http://www.smogon.com/dp/tiers/uber

Edited October 4, 2010 by wraith89

[randomspot555]

Wraith said it quite well. You need to have a strategy or theme for a team, and then pick Pokemon to fill that theme. Picking six random Pokemon and then desprately trying to find a strategy just won't work more often than not.

Read wraith's post a few times, and feel free to ask questions. But let's ask questions in a different thread.

Also, it's helpful to know that many of us use Shoddy Battle, a battle simulator. That way we avoid the task of breednig egg moves, going to spend shards on move tutors, etc...