Miracle or Luck

[FLOOTENKERP]

Did I say everything came from miracles?
1. We are narrowing this subject down health related miracles/luck.
2. Did I say everything came from miracles?
3. It wasn't luck either.
4. It just happened. Like how the wind blew this spec of dust to my back yard. :|

Hm, call me crazy but I think it was pretty lucky that whatever fortunate event accidentally happened to make the parents of the creator of the computer to meet. Does that not seem lucky to you? In fact, computers play a big role in hospitals, which is what we use to create these so called "miracles". What would be a miracle is if you got into a car crash, were not brought to a hospital and got up and healed naturally yourself, which will never happen.

[damio]

Hm, call me crazy but I think it was pretty lucky that whatever fortunate event accidentally happened to make the parents of the creator of the computer to meet. Does that not seem lucky to you? In fact, computers play a big role in hospitals, which is what we use to create these so called "miracles". What would be a miracle is if you got into a car crash, were not brought to a hospital and got up and healed naturally yourself, which will never happen.

Keep in mind that it is perfectly possible for someone to be in a horrifying car crash and get up and walk away, it all depends on the severety of the injuries.

[randomspot555]

Say that to the doctor I had when I almost died from a car accident. He told my family they should start preparing a funeral. My surgeon said the seat belt damage was so severe it was like someone got a chainsaw and put it inside me. I was on life support for over a week. I believe that is a miracle.

Was there a medical reasoning to how your body was healed?

It's happen to one of our family friends.

Anecdotal evidence only goes so far. And since you clearly believe in miracles, then you'll be more inclined to believe they are miracles.

There hasn't been a documented case of cancer just vanishing.. If it was true, your family friend would be in a variety of medical texts.

Keep in mind that it is perfectly possible for someone to be in a horrifying car crash and get up and walk away, it all depends on the severety of the injuries.

That and adrenaline. People have been documented performing "super-human" (for lack of a better term) feats when pumped up with enough of it.

I'm inclined to agree with Floot, that a miracle isn't someone surviving from a disease or injury while being monitored by medical professionals, no matter how slim the chance of survival is, because there is always a chance. And a miracle is NOT faith healing, and there's good reason that almost no, if any, legit churches recognize that mass hysteria BS. A miracle would be a blind man all of a sudden being able to see, and retaining it, or a disease vanishing as if it was never there in the first place, or getting up from a severe car crash and walking away from it without injury.

[Turtlekid2]

I believe in miracles, yes, and to a certain extent, chance, which some would call luck. A miracle, for me, involves something out of the ordinary, something that defies natural law. Luck has more to do with things like the lottery or the random character switch in Smash Bros. Brawl.

[DeathWatch]

I believe in Luck more then miracle.

[YuzuruHitokiri]

Luck happens by chance. Do you honestly believe all that could have happened by chance? It seems improbable for me. All that you see... human life, nature... the patterns of this world... were all created by chance? The odds of that is unfavorable.

Yes, I do... Things happen, then other things happen that build off of them...
Imagine it as dominos stacked near each other. You just happen to press one and it falls. It lands on the next and it in turn falls. It falls onto the next and so on and so forth. They were there and caused each other to fall. At the end one falls off a table and falls onto a bug, killing it instantly... If you were that bug, would you consider that a miracle?...

Well, I just think that if someone was pernamentally para from the neck down--spinal cord cut... infact, we will say 10 inches ripped out leaving a 10 inch gap for those who want to test this. Anyways, he or she wakes up and gains all mobility. No doctor can explain how it happen and even the best say it is impossible to happen and so do sceintists. What are you going to believe?

IMO: Now for luck? That's chance. Like saying the chance of the computer randomly picking a number between 1/10.

Two bad examples, Greencat...
One, if a person were to have "10 inches ripped out" of their back, HOW WOULD THEIR BRAIN BE ABLE TO SEND THE SIGNALS REQUIRED FOR A CONTRACTION IN THE MUSCLES!!! And if 10 inches were missing, how would their vital organs still be intact AND how would they have enough blood to maintain their bodily functions long enough to get to a hospital to be brought to a stable condition?...
Two, a computer NEVER does ANYTHING at random... A random number generator gives the illusion of randomness by taking the time in some defined unit of time and then calculates a number based on that time! It appears random because it is highly improbable that two people will use the generator at the exact same time ever...

Another bias... "there are no such things as supernaturals". How do you know? Is this world all there is?

You're biased too... How do you know there is any other worlds besides ours?... How do you know that any other worlds follow different rules pertaining to what we consider supernatural?... The fact is that we do not know either way and, as such, it has no place in debate...

An interesting topic. Is it by luck that all is like this or perhaps a miracle. Or is it a miracle created by luck, or luck created by miracle.

Some say that a miracle created the first organisms. Some argue that it was mere luck and that all was there exactly when it needed to be. I find that a miracle is luck, and vice versa.

All right no more repetition... Personally I believe that the universe is and always has been about luck. Multiple events strung together into an unpredictable pattern. The only thing that is set in stone is that the event will occur and it will end, that is it. What happens between creation and oblivion is completely up to chance. It is by chance that I am capable of thinking in this manner. It is by chance that the human race created the idea of miracle and luck. And it is by chance that we as humans are incapable of ever knowing. Perhaps it is a Law of Nature. Perhaps humans are never to know. Ever curious the human will constantly try to figure out everything, but in this greed human beings will...

Okay I went way off there. Basically: Everything can only be by luck because a miracle even happening implies that humans truly have no control of their path, and I as a human can not wish for what I believe is free will to leave me as a possibility and allow it to become a memory. In other words, I am scared of miracles.

Thank you, at least someone shares my opinion...

Double edit: And yeah, people are using medicine a lot because it's something that people can easily wrap their minds around.

And because medicine is sort of a "guess and check" science because we still do not understand ourselves even close to completely...

Those are like the absolute worst examples of "miracles". There's a very good reason why, even among Christians, few consider those miracles valid.

The TLDR is that these faith healing celebrations, even if it isn't completely staged, is that amounts of adrenaline can cause body functions to increase beyond normal means. In someone physically disabled, it might mean their disability goes away for a time being, or that the adrenaline represses pain, and so on.

Amazing chemical, that adrenaline. You even hear about that lady that picked up a car to save her son that was trapped underneath it?...

[Greencat]

Two bad examples, Greencat...
One, if a person were to have "10 inches ripped out" of their back, HOW WOULD THEIR BRAIN BE ABLE TO SEND THE SIGNALS REQUIRED FOR A CONTRACTION IN THE MUSCLES!!! And if 10 inches were missing, how would their vital organs still be intact AND how would they have enough blood to maintain their bodily functions long enough to get to a hospital to be brought to a stable condition?...
Two, a computer NEVER does ANYTHING at random... A random number generator gives the illusion of randomness by taking the time in some defined unit of time and then calculates a number based on that time! It appears random because it is highly improbable that two people will use the generator at the exact same time ever...

Exactly. If they lived, it's a miracle.

[Endless Eden]

Simple.

Luck.

You either have it or dont.

[Greencat]

How is it lucky to be restored essentially, super naturally, if no one expects the person to live?

[SmellTheBurningEmber]

Personally, I'm torn. I believe shit happens and I believe shit happens for a reason. It honestly just depends on the situation. Just some examples:

A Shiny Pokémon appeared!: Luck.
A cancerous tumor disappears for unknown reasons: Miracle.
A XBox 360 doesn't get the RROD since it's been bought 3 years ago: Neither, because you would be lying.



So luck applies to everything that isn't life-threating, in my opinion. ~STBE

[Endless Eden]

There have been accounts of whats called the Lazerus effect (coming back from the dead)

A particular one i recall is one my English teacher told the class ( sorry parts are vague but i know the gist of it)

A man was Climbing mountains when he fell into a crevas. This man died in that crevas 3 days later he was found and when he was taken back to a hospital a pulse appeared and the man returned to health.

Now you will say "Oh a miracle the invisible hippie did it!" but here one for ya,

The mans head landed in a stream. The motion of the water kept activity of some sort in his brain alive. (thats the vague part i dont recall exactly how it happened..)

That man was lucky his head landed in the stream wasnt he?

(and lol the RROD comment ^)

[Greencat]

I say luck for that one since something took part and he fell in water when there was a chance he could've slid 3 inches to the right and hit a rock and die.
Something acted upon it and changed the situation.

[ASuch]

First of all. Let me say this. I am an atheist. Flame me for it. I think that miracles are real, but some people think that its because of super natural means. I don't hate Chirstians, its just that I hate that they believe one person saved this persons life like 10 times. If this acutally happened by super natural means, why isn't AIDS cured? Why isn't Cancer cured?

[OriginShadow]

I believe in both.
Miracles because when I was born, my intestines weren't attached to my stomach, yet I survived 3 months with very little food without any negative repercussions.
I fell 2~3 stories onto wood and got up without a scratch.
Luck: I well out of a boat going 50~60 mph and got up again, uninjured with the boat narrowly missing me. (fell of the bow)
Was nearly pasted by a cement truck, but I slid backwards on gravel just in the nick of time.

Not much in the way of reasons, but it's what I got.

[Shadowlord757]

I believe that gdod makes miracles for us.