Pokemon Ashinyngray Project (Pokémon Improving)

**wyndamn** · Aug 29th, 2011

The main purpose here is to improve all pokémon who need it, through the Editing of moves, abilities and typing combinations by doing minor changes on each pokémon. This will upgrade the usage and battling potential of those pokemon proportionally.

Already good pokemon will also be improved (in a non-broken way of course) by giving them new roles or perfecting their skills with things they still lacked. These changes will ensure a whole new and more balanced metagame while at the same time making it more unpredictable and diverse. Another plus is the fact of a dramatical size reduction in tiers.

This thread will be use to discuss the fixes i already did for many pokemon so far and to point out any mistakes ive made, or things i might have overlooked when it comes down to making them fair playable and of course to contribute with new ideas (as im runing out of them) for pokemon who still need to be fixed.

Another important purpose of this project is to serve as an standard metagame for any Modified Roms who chooses to use it, which will save up time so you can center more in other rom editing areas, but also to bring the competitive aspect of the game into modified roms as well.

Just a few extra easy rules to follow here;

Be Polite.
Use logic when suggesting something. Example; A pokemon with no arms shouldnt be able to learn any punching moves or either have an abilitie such as Iron Fist, unless of course it´s pokedex entry info suggests otherwise.
If you can also run down calculations in order to be more accurate.
You can also use real world logic if you know what the pokemon is based of or if it fits its theme. Example; Kangaskhan=Kangaroo=Well known Puncher= Iron Fist+Elemental Punches. Or Unown=Unpredictable=Moody+Assist+Metronome+Accupre ssure.
Make sure of using spoilers if you are going to place a large list or something alike.
If you dont agree with something, be sure to let us know the reasons behind it.

One last hopeful thing, if GF staff ever sees this, they may use various pokémon updates from here to fix some of them. They have done it in the past, so why not later? and you can see proof of this in some of the threads/videos i utilized to pick up some ideas in the credits.

I´ll add people or any other materials that helped this project to the credits below here.

Spoiler

Just in case, i asked here first; http://projectpokemon.org/forums/sho...he-Right-Place

Note: Remember to give credit if ever using this & PM me if the link is broken. Once we are done with what´s left of this i can finally proceed to make my pokémon Ashinyngray Rom.

**pkmntrainerBW** · Aug 29th, 2011

Do you ever plan on writing a changelog with all the changes? I am actually very interested in this.

**wyndamn** · Aug 29th, 2011

Originally Posted by pkmntrainerBW

Do you ever plan on writing a changelog with all the changes? I am actually very interested in this.

Actually yes, im doing one for my future hackrom (Pokémon Ashinyngray) but most of the important changes are listed in the documents above for download and as i said before, i will be updating this list everytime there are new worthy ideas. Most of the other changes i have written are focused in making the game more complete; such as placing stronger NPC´s, editing evolution ways, some sprite editing, adding pokemon which the original rom lacked in locations that fits them and other stuff. If you need any ideas just PM me.

**Metalfygon08** · Aug 31st, 2011

So we suggest logical upgrades to Pokemon?

if so...

Here's some ideas I used in my Hack (which is completely ignored)

Pokemon Types remain unchanged

Spoiler

------------------------------------

Also Giving Wild Pokemon the ability to hold Eviolite as item slot-2(the rarer one) makes the battles more Random ingame, also giving Eviolite to every trainer that can use it post Gym 4.

**wyndamn** · Aug 31st, 2011

You wrote several logical ideas that may be changed later on, but only as a secondary or minor edits as most of them are not really that useful in the sense of the metagame for these pokemon (which its mostly the goal here) since the majority are weak moves that may only be used for LC battles or in-game. Also some suggestions were irrelevant as the pokemon already learned the suggested move, didnt suit them or i had already done the change before.

Anyway somethings i did see as useful are;

- Eelektrik line
*Surf...but giving them muddy water its even more logical and suitable since most eels (if not the all) live at the bottom of the sea or ponds along the dirt or in caves. Also helps in the sense of dropping the foe´s accuracy and is also useful together with coil, rain support, double battles, in trick room and also to be more unpredictable.

- Excadrill
*Iron Head Makes total sense, specially since i removed the sand rush ability from him and replaced it with weak armor.

- Pignite & Emboar
* Fire Punch as an alternative physical non-recoil damage move plus this logic cannot be denied.
* Submission also helps in combination of reckless and the move also fits him perfectly.

- Woobat & Swoobat
* Trace since bats can trace things thanks to their ultrasonic location system to know their surroundings. Also good and useful logic here.

Just to make things more clear, we need logic, but only with few minor key edits that create hype over using the pokemon and that also fits the pokemon theme or looks while being helpful for them. In any case if you want reasons for me not picking some just ask and ill explain with more detail. I,ll add you to the credits. Meanwhile im gonna make these changes in the document and gonna upload it later when we get a few more ideas, those who already have the documents please edit them with the changes in this thread or wait until i re-upload it.

**Metalfygon08** · Aug 31st, 2011

I agree with Muddy Water, that list was just a C&P from my game so I knew a few wouldn't work for meta-ness.

Garbador NEEDs somthing to help it not suck, like mabye Intimidate? and access to Leech Seed (Garbage is a great Fertalizer and often untouched Garbage will sprout seeds).

Though I am curious about no mentioning of Submission for Emboar, since it works with Reckless, and Emboar is totally a Pokemon who should be able to use it. (I mean Excadrill can use it)

**wyndamn** · Aug 31st, 2011

Originally Posted by Metalfygon08

I agree with Muddy Water, that list was just a C&P from my game so I knew a few wouldn't work for meta-ness.

Garbador NEEDs somthing to help it not suck, like mabye Intimidate? and access to Leech Seed (Garbage is a great Fertalizer and often untouched Garbage will sprout seeds).

Though I am curious about no mentioning of Submission for Emboar, since it works with Reckless, and Emboar is totally a Pokemon who should be able to use it. (I mean Excadrill can use it)

Yeah i just forgot to place it in the post, but i did change it on the document n_n. On the other hand Garbodor indeed needs something to stand out itself and be different to many other pokemon but i doubt intimidate or leech seed will really upgrade her and doesnt really fit her either leech seed will be too weird even if its logical. Gonna check now to see which moves fit her and then see if i can pull a niche for her to prevent her from being total garbage lol. and please next time if youre placing a long list put it on a spoiler.

**wyndamn** · Sep 2nd, 2011

Found the niche for Garbodor which makes her family line very good without being broken, since it requieres a bit of skill, setup or time to pull it off while simultaneously being blocked by the use of unaware pokemon, encore, trick or switcheroo, disable, sleep moves or phazing move users.

To fix it i just needed to include three new moves in its usable movepool and all of them make pretty much sense in it , these are;

Stored Power - Being a Thrash bag they are supposed to store many things within themselves.
(i dont know how Gamefreak missed this pokémon logic trolling they usually do since garbodor its a physical pokemon n_n)
Nasty Plot - to make a reference of the awful odor it has and since its thrash i guess they plot to dominate the world, lol.
Work Up - This is something that logically all pokemon are able to do.
Thrash - Only for logical fun of it.

Now the main idea here is to combine nasty plot or work up with stockpile and weak armor ability to fire up a powerful Stored Power. Also a set within nasty plot alone can work since it has moderate defenses to take advantage from. whereareas work up is to aim for the physical or mixed side of the spectrum.

Another change i will make at the same time its transforming stored power into a normal type move since batton passing can make this attack very troublesome. This will let ghost types block such attack while at the same time giving them more importance. Also this change follows logic, since storing things its something many pokemon can do and finally to compensate the typing loss i will increase it by 20 bp more for a total of 40 base power.

Edit: Also Added Adaptabilty on Deerling and Sawsbuck as a secondary ability and moved the sap sipper as a dream world ability. This will power up Both of its stab move options specially its leech horn attack. The logic reason of it its because it can adapt to any place they live as stated in bulbapedia and also because it lives in almost every enviroment in the unova region.

BTW you can ask any questions about the logic behind any changes in the list if you do not understand it.

**pkmntrainerBW** · Sep 5th, 2011

Just curious, were you planning on having people with Flashcards start using this on WiFi or were you just posting this as a preview for your own ROM Hack you said you were working on?

**wyndamn** · Sep 5th, 2011

Originally Posted by pkmntrainerBW

Just curious, were you planning on having people with Flashcards start using this on WiFi or were you just posting this as a preview for your own ROM Hack you said you were working on?

I want to make clear first that this is not to play on random wifi matches or on any other official tourneys, as i dont support cheating. That being said, this is only meant to be used for friendly hacked pokémon matches or tourneys, but the other reasons are inside the spoiler below;

Spoiler

I think that covers everything. Also i removed Shift Gear from Mawile on the list, as i havent seen the animation of the attack before editing it and it does not fit her at all. So i´m gonna try another combinations for her.

Edit; I´ll upload an update of the documents in a few weeks more since i had to revamp the documents, because i have been researching, calculating and testing many of the stuff i made in the documents and some of them weren´t appropiate.

**pkmntrainerBW** · Oct 2nd, 2011

Oh yeah I wasn't talking about Random WiFi but like If someone created a WiFi battling thread and specified that everyone on this thread would be using this hack. I wouldn't go on Random WiFi and do this anyway because it would probably just disconnect me.

**wyndamn** · Nov 9th, 2012

PLEASE ERASE THIS THREAD ! will be posting this on the future when its finished.... project has been revamped and its being currently updated by myself in this spreadsheet https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...W1oVi1qRVppS1E (which anyone can also view in my signature)

Everything is now even more logical and senseful than previously since now i have been also taking into account the real translations of moves and abilities as well. The previous file was also removed from my mediafire account since many pokémon were updated to fit the purpose better, while some others had their changes removed because were not suitable enough, either way with the new changes there´s a vast quantity of improved pokémon and there is still more to be fixed yet, if you want to help theorized just message me or email me at wyndamn@hotmail.com

**HawkGonzo** · Nov 17th, 2012

Here's my list of type and some hability changes:

1ST GEN

Spoiler

2ND GEN

Spoiler

3RD GEN

Spoiler

4TH GEN

Spoiler

5TH GEN

Spoiler

**aninymouse** · Nov 17th, 2012

Onix & Steelix are part Ground-type because they live underground. Jus' sayin'.

**wyndamn** · Nov 17th, 2012

I had the same idea previously for many of the pokémon you placed in there (as they are pretty obvious as you said) but since im revamping the project at the moment i havent included some of those changes because they are more hackrom centered than metagame material, but i do agree in changing some pokémons typing to make them better only if necessary (If there´s no other way to improve them trough abilities or moves) and that´s why i havent add some of those changes you mentioned yet to the new spreadsheet because all changes im making to them is following logic in the pure sense of the word and also taking in account the real translations of abilities, moves and some other pokémon concepts and of course testing everything before to see how good it works before making any permanent changes.

But you surprised me with some that i didnt think about so far. I do agree with most of them following the logical sense, however there are a few that should be different and some that even with that change wont really make any metagame difference when it comes to using the pokémon on higher tiers. I will place all my ideas and coments below each line inside the spoiler in Italic.

Spoiler

Originally Posted by HawkGonzo

Here's my list of type and some hability changes:

1ST GEN

Charizard: Fire/Dragon, 2nd hab: Levitate. (I think this is obvious)
I dont mind the change to Fire/Dragon, but i dont agree with levitate on him, since he can fly but annot levitate by himself. I think that by being a dragon kinda makes up for the resistances, cause its only weak to rock, dragon and ground, and water and ice only hit him for neutral damage. So the only thing he needs its a boosting ability (which he already has in the form of solar power) but you could use any other physical boosting ability that suits him to improve it in that sense. But levitate its not really something that charizard should have in any sense.

Psyduck line: Water/Psychic (obvious too)
True and suits perfectly pokedex information, in fact i have been testing psyduck and golduck as water/psychic with adaptability and its working very well specially in the psyduck stage for little cup it becomes very powerful and also improves mixed sets as well. As a Golduck in comparison with OU standards its decent enough, since his stats are not that great to really become abussive, but it does has the strongest psychic and hydro pump ever, since the former will be a 180 base power attack and the later a 240 base power, which differentiates him greatly from Crawdaunt and also slowbro. And just to explain why adaptability in the logical sense, this is following the sense that ducks are very adaptable animals that can basically live in any enviroment, which we can notice by all of the places psyducks can be caught in most game versions.

Magnemite line: change Sturdy for Levitate.
More than perfect, except i actually changed the third ability for that one, since both sturdy and magnet pull are very useful for them too.

Farfetch'd: Fight/Flying (It's like some kind of warrior with his stick)
Most people usually think the same about this, BUT I DISAGREE, because of the fact that there are several pokémon who use other type of items to fight and that doesnt necessarily turn them into a fithting type, plus either way doesnt actually help him at all to be more used.

Doduo line: Normal. (Why flying? Where are their wings?)
Agreed and already did this change long time ago. Also removed the TM fly from his learn set, gamefreak its always trolling people ._.

Onix and Steelix: Rock and Steel only. (Onix is made all of big boulders, and Steelix the same with steel. Don't see ground type anywhere)
This is actually not benefitial, since both of them benefit from being a ground type. Also just so you can research it an learn a little bit more about minerals, these only get harder and form themselves underground because of the compression of the ground they become much more solid until they turn themselves into other kind of minerals like gems and steel etc. Thats a little i know about it... and also steelix dex info mentions this as well, so i dont agree with removing the ground type from them because is part of their own life origin and evolution just as aninymouse said

Kangaskhan: Normal/Fight (like you said before, it's a boxing kangaroo)
Very true, I actually forgot to make this change, will place this right away. As most people know kangaroos are excelent natural fighters in fact thats why they have been depicted in the popular sense as a boxers in cartoons and other similar media, so its a very general and well known concept. She also learns a lot of different type of punches as the dex entry states its very skilled at comet punching, so the iron fist ability i placed on her makes total sense and helps this move as well as the other punches in her arsenal (specially her focus punch moveset) that way she can become more useful and will also be the only fighting type that can hit ghosts with Scrappy and drain punch also helps in the sense of recovery plus stab.

Seadra: Water/Poison? (he has some poisonous stings around his body...)
That will only make it worst to be used, since it will be weak to psychic and ground moves, and the metagame its now plagued with psychic types on 5th gen, even though it could actually help on the defensive side against fighting types, but i believe it can be improved in some other ways, like with the small change i made already by making them learn dragon tail which enhances the defensive sets of the horsea family. I would like to give them spikes or toxic spikes to all three to complete the defensive sets, but that is not possible when following logic as kingdra and horsea dont have any spikes (stupid seadra gene). Tentacool and tentacruel are actually better when it comes to the typing and also doesnt make much sense when it comes to the sudden evolution typing changes.

Electabuzz and Electivire: Elect/Fight (Elemental punchs, kicking attacks, Cross Chop...)
Ive though about this change several times but im still not 100% convinced, but it fits with reckless ability and its usable i guess.

Gyarados: Water/Dragon (OBVIOUS)
I do like the idea, but i wouldnt make such change just because gyarados is great like he is right now, even if very few people use it at the moment, its still very powerful, specially with its new ability, and his weakness to electric and rock are the few things that can knock him down and i wouldnt like gyarados to be compared in that sense to other water/dragon types. So i feel its pretty unnecesary

Porygon line: I don't know if Normal/Elect. (Capable of shoting beams, artificial form of life... ) or Normal/Ghost (Only Porygon Z) (capable of travel between dimesions, oddly behaviour,...)
This was another surprise for me, Normal/ Electric its a nice change to complement what i just did a few days ago, since i added Volt Change by TM in the porygon family learnset this will improve mainly porygon and porygon-z a lot. Porygon will be improved at LC play and in porygon-z´s case its gonna be awesome because of his natural high base special attack coupled with adaptability and with a 140 power volt change or a 160 discharge with scarf or agility will make it kinda like the electric version of genesect but less broken. It also gives porygon-2 another weakness to be able to take it down more easily with any non-fighting pokémon with earthquake or drill liner which are more common, because honestly that thing its way too defensive, in my point of view its lacking little to be broken. Btw normal/ghost doesnt fit them, so electric/normal makes more sense since its kinda like rotom but in the inverse way.

Dratini and Dragonair: Dragon/Water (They live in the water)
Dont see why not, while not 100% accurate it does makes sense and also helps them in the metagame sense, since this way they become neutral to ice attacks and to grass attacks too which enhances their defensive forms. But in my personal opinion i dont think i would make such change unless i actually test it in battle and becomes REALLY useful in that way, and just because they live underwater doesnt necessarily means that it should be a water type, like for example the giant dragonite on first episodes of pokémon by the lighthouse, or lugia, anorith, lileep and cradily for example

Mewtwo: Psychic/Dark (His psychic powers are so strong that I considere them like Dark, the darkness of hate in his heart,...)
I have seen a lot of people with this idea, i think mewtwo its perfect just the way it is, he doesnt need any more changes, for me he is still the king of Ubers specially now that it has acquired the psystrike attack, so its mostly an optional inaccurate change. That type of combination suits better the gothita family in any case

2ND GEN
Misdreavus line: Ghost/Psychic (have psychic powers, Mismagius is like a witch, and for me, magic is psychic+ghost)
being a psychic type doesnt actually fit her that much, plus many ghosts are already able to learns psychic moves, im still working to see how can i fix her properly

Dunsparce: Normal/Dragon (is like a little dragon *3*)
normal/ground its more suitable considering its habitat, learnset and pokedex info.

3RD GEN
Sceptile: Plant/Dragon (he reminds me a dragon with the power of the nature)
im not sure about this change yet, need to make more research about geckos facts and sceptile familiy

Azurill: Water (is a water pokemon, even if NOBODY is gonna use him)
Again trollfreak logic, so i do agree to this change too, but its not really necessary if someone doesnt want to change it... and they use him on Little Cup actually xD.

Nosepass line: Rock/Elect. (They are natural passes that are stones with electric charge, so their type is obvious)
Agreed.

Volbeat and Illumise: Bug/Elect. (They produce electricity for made glow some parts of their body)
I do like the idea, to give them stab and differentiate them from other prankster users, but when it comes to logic its lacking something, because if im not mistaken that would be bioluminescence instead of electricity, but it decent at least, so you could use it but it wouldnt be 100% logical except for the fact that they are able to use several electric attacks.

Trapinch: Bug/Ground (Ant Pit pokemon. A bug. End of the history)
already did this change

Vibrava and Flygon: Bug/Dragon - Sand Veil (they are dragonflies)
Also did this change too and vibrava and flygon with quiverdance helps to improve its usage and also makes them different to the way all other dragons play

Swablu line: Flying only. (They are like clouds, for me they are more flying only type than Tornadus)
I dont agree on this, if theres any right typing for it would be flying/normal for altaria

Glalie: Ice/Rock (his body is covered with a rock-like ice)
Also Agreed, since its mentioned on his pokedex info too.

4TH GEN
Luxray: Elect./Dark (his dark appearance, intimidating...)
I thought of this in the hackrom sense, but logically talking doenst make much sense in anyway nor it helps him that much.

Spiritomb: Ghost/Rock (is a ghost that gets out form a stone)
Even if the stone theme fits, that actually would make spiritomb worst competitively than he is right now and i already come up with stockpile for him, which is senseful and does help him A LOT to tank up itself and become a tough pokémon to take on. So its better to leave its typing untounch

Regigigas: Normal/Ground (a colossus made of rocks, ice and steel: minerals = ground type)
This was another idea that surprised me, it seems like a very suitable and nice idea, i might steal you this later xD...

5TH GEN

Serperior: Plant/Psychic (appearance)
this one doesnt make sense at all. I considered this popular change previously of grass/dragon but she isnt even a dragon related pokemon it just learns some dragon attacks

Tepig line: Fire or Fire/Dark (they are fat pigs; thet don't need fight type, is not so obvious like in Infernape; Emboar has a dark appearance)
At the beggining i thought the same way, fire/dark, but actually like some other people suggested fire/ground fits him better in all senses almost, plus it helps him competitively speaking better

Oshawott line: Water/Fight (they are samurais)
Its suitable altough not necessary i guess, but its an interesting optional type combination, just take in account than if you do this oshawott cannot be fighting type to start with, but his evolutions can, this is so you dont break the tradition of most 1st stage starter pokemon not having a secondary type.

Cofagrigus: Ghost/Steel (steel coffin)
Actually his based on a egyptian coffin, which are usually made of stone and covered in gold and gold is also another compressed mineral, taking those little facts in account means its actually better being a Ghost/Rock which its a pretty neat typing since its only hit by ground, steel, ghosts, water and grass... in my case i added solid rock on cofagrigus as a 3rd ability to further improve its defensive skills, and also yanmask mask is made of stone, i also changed its typing to ghost/rock but he instead has the 3rd ability as levitate, which also helps a lot in LC, not to mention also the sandstorm boost that will make it a premier defensive pokemon coupled with some calm mind boosts.

Eelektrik and Eelektross: Elect/Poison (YES, POISON. Is half eel, half bloodsucker)
no sense at all, since electric eels are not poisonous following animal based logic, and doesnt suit or help the pokemon itself

Beheeyem: Psy/Elect (mental control by glowing hands, electric conexions in his big brain...)
Its passable, basically another optional change, ive considered this before but droped the concept.

Accelgor: Bug/Dark (appearance)
cool, but not necessary, again another optinal change

Druddigon: Dragon/Rock (rock-like skin)
had the same thinking on this one previously but im still doubtful as to the helpfulness of that change, more testing in this sense is required

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