Kyurem: A Speculation Thread

[Gin]

What's the concept kyuurem is supposed to represent? That could help enlighten us on what will happen next.

[wraith89]

Apparently "neutrality" or the absence of energy (represented by Ice). Reshiram and Zekrom are two extremes, one representing Yin and the other Yang, both positive energies of some kind (Fire and Lightning). Also notice their "turbine-esque" tails. Kyurem shares that trait with the other two as well (though it resembles a plug more).

Reshiram's White, Zekrom's Black, Kyurem's Grey. Now you tell me what that's supposed to be

[aquaguy34]

Remember guys Kyurem is Wuji (the borderline between yin and yang) which means "neither" and in some cases "both" so that would somewhat explain Kyurem's incompleteness.

[JellyRulerZ]

I agree with the idea of Kyurem being the empty shell of the original dragon, but i have an idea on how it got its icy powers. So both zekrom and reshiram are weak to ground, so maybe the original dragon was ground type, but froze when its's only source of heat (fire and lighting) left. so if/when kyurem is becomes whole, it's alternate form might be ground and dragon. just an idea

[KyoMcFizzle]

Wow, there is a lot of interesting stuff going on here. If there is another form, I just hope it retains its Ice typing... only because if it does not, Gamefreak has succeeded in making Ice type look inferior once again. D:<
Whatever the case, we will know in the next game (should it come). That quote from N Pingouin stated somewhat interests me and might correlate to the central plot of a Grey version.

Ewww typo. Thanks Toff, that would have been a grave error on my part...
And Toff, there are no Vanillites near Giant Chasm :/

Also, the notion of Kyurem's incompleteness is indeed derived from its lack of symmetry. However, it is also from its battling prowess too, as mentioned, as it lacks 20 base stats from being even equal to Reshiram and Zekrom and is aberrant in the moves it learns, which makes you wonder why Gamefreak would let their designers get away with a "trio master" in this ridiculous form? It looks like it is begging for a simple upgrade of some sorts. This isn't foreign as upgrades were done during Gen IV to some Pokemon like Giratina and Rotom (though the former is mostly a form change rather than an upgrade), but perhaps they are trying a different approach this time?

I think they ran out of time, threw some random thing in, called it the Ice Dragon, and said "Hey just wait until Grey version! We'll make something cool out of this guy! We promise!"

*stares at Farfetch'd, Delibird, Luvdisc, and a whole slew of other Pokemon who were on the "upgrades wanted" waiting list*

"We'll get to them too! Really!"

First off, I'm appalled by the lack of, oh, I don't know.... DUNSPARCE... On your list. >:C Also, the whole quote from N thing is somewhat self explained. Let's think back for a moment on the whole topic of the Original Dragon. Several different Ideals were mixed together during the era of this Pokemon. One brother sought this world of ideals, while the other sought the Truth. Perhaps this quote is merely meant as a reference to the creation of Reshiram and Zekrom. The separation of Truth and Ideals in to separate entities. The separation of Grey in to Black and White. Just a thought.

On the topic of the moves Freeze Burn and Ice Shock (Or whatever), I'm liking the idea of eliminating the Charge Up time on these moves. Perhaps there will be an interesting turn of events here. Here's my hypothesis:

-Kyurem receives a Form Change of some kind and a new ability that eliminates charge up time; a permanent Red Herb ability, if you will. As such, his signature moves are then left open to be Freeze Burn and Ice Shock (Or whatever).
-Reshiram and Zekrom both receive their respective moves Freeze Burn and Ice Shock. HOWEVER, since these two do NOT have the aforementioned ability that reduces charge time, these moves are then made less effective on both dragons due to their only being HALF of the original dragon each. This could tie in on some level to Kyurem resembling and being the physical majority of the original dragon or some random story plot twist thing or whatever. Don't ask me.
-Form Change allows Kyurem to take on a more even form that may/may not resemble the original dragon OR both Reshiram and Zekrom.


On the topic of being to use Fire/Electric type moves, I wouldn't bet against it. If Kyurem really is a shell of the original dragon, then it's not too Farfetch'd (OH LOOK. LOOK. A PUN. A POKEMON PUN. AHAHAHAHAHA. I'M SO WITTY.) to assume that Kyurem would be able to learn lesser electric and fire type moves, such as Charge Beam or Incinerate.

Regarding the presence of neutrality with Kyurem, it makes a great deal of sense. Though I don't know how to expand upon the idea right now. HOORAY.

And lastly, ground dragon seems kinda.... I dunno. It almost feels way off, given the concept of Kyurem. I like the idea of Kyurem becoming an Ice type when its source of heat left, but at the same time why would it be ground type? Why not be something else that is a medium between Fire and Lightning? Again though, given the types in Pokemon, finding a Medium between the two is kinda hard. Perhaps the one dragon was just straight dragon type? Most Dragon types (KEY WORD: MOST) are capable of learning fire and electric type moves. Hydreigon, Druddigon, Palkia... Who said the original Dragon needed any other type?

And that's my two bits for now.

[JellyRulerZ]

good point on that, kyo. and you know now that i think about it ground really doesnt make much sense. Well i guess we'll find out, if gamefreak is nice enough.

[KyoMcFizzle]

good point on that, kyo. and you know now that i think about it ground really doesnt make much sense. Well i guess we'll find out, if gamefreak is nice enough.

Talked with a few people about the Pokemon Grey version issue that everyone is buzzing about. People are saying it would be advantageous for Nintendo if they released Grey on the 3DS, whereas everyone else is crying and whining that it needs to stay on the DS until this generation comes to a close. Since this is somewhat related, here's my educated prediction:

Pokemon Grey will be released for the DS, but there will be special 3DS Grey content released through the AR Cards method that the 3DS is currently implementing. Why? Let's discuss:

If Grey were to be released on the 3DS, it would require a complete system overhaul. You'd have to rewrite the entire game and really kick everything up a couple dozen notches in order to implement the 3D in to the game. Not only that, you'd be writing off dozens of fans and a lot of profit. Yes, having a Pokemon title on the 3DS would be a great boost to sales, especially in anticipation of trying to outself the NGP, but I'm hoping (And betting) that Nintendo will keep Grey on the DS as a final means to keep things in order.

[wraith89]

First off, I'm appalled by the lack of, oh, I don't know.... DUNSPARCE... On your list. >:C Also, the whole quote from N thing is somewhat self explained. Let's think back for a moment on the whole topic of the Original Dragon. Several different Ideals were mixed together during the era of this Pokemon. One brother sought this world of ideals, while the other sought the Truth. Perhaps this quote is merely meant as a reference to the creation of Reshiram and Zekrom. The separation of Truth and Ideals in to separate entities. The separation of Grey in to Black and White. Just a thought.

On the topic of the moves Freeze Burn and Ice Shock (Or whatever), I'm liking the idea of eliminating the Charge Up time on these moves. Perhaps there will be an interesting turn of events here. Here's my hypothesis:

-Kyurem receives a Form Change of some kind and a new ability that eliminates charge up time; a permanent Red Herb ability, if you will. As such, his signature moves are then left open to be Freeze Burn and Ice Shock (Or whatever).
-Reshiram and Zekrom both receive their respective moves Freeze Burn and Ice Shock. HOWEVER, since these two do NOT have the aforementioned ability that reduces charge time, these moves are then made less effective on both dragons due to their only being HALF of the original dragon each. This could tie in on some level to Kyurem resembling and being the physical majority of the original dragon or some random story plot twist thing or whatever. Don't ask me.
-Form Change allows Kyurem to take on a more even form that may/may not resemble the original dragon OR both Reshiram and Zekrom.


On the topic of being to use Fire/Electric type moves, I wouldn't bet against it. If Kyurem really is a shell of the original dragon, then it's not too Farfetch'd (OH LOOK. LOOK. A PUN. A POKEMON PUN. AHAHAHAHAHA. I'M SO WITTY.) to assume that Kyurem would be able to learn lesser electric and fire type moves, such as Charge Beam or Incinerate.

Regarding the presence of neutrality with Kyurem, it makes a great deal of sense. Though I don't know how to expand upon the idea right now. HOORAY.

And lastly, ground dragon seems kinda.... I dunno. It almost feels way off, given the concept of Kyurem. I like the idea of Kyurem becoming an Ice type when its source of heat left, but at the same time why would it be ground type? Why not be something else that is a medium between Fire and Lightning? Again though, given the types in Pokemon, finding a Medium between the two is kinda hard. Perhaps the one dragon was just straight dragon type? Most Dragon types (KEY WORD: MOST) are capable of learning fire and electric type moves. Hydreigon, Druddigon, Palkia... Who said the original Dragon needed any other type?

And that's my two bits for now.

I didn't mention Stunfisk either, did I? But oh well, it's one of those new guys, so...

I would really like it if the charge was eliminated as well somehow. Then that would make the whole "charge up" effect a useless concept to begin with. Perhaps then, it was implemented only because Metronome *might* select those moves, or they may be available to Reshiram or Zekrom in the future, though they lack STAB and most possibly, require charge up, like you are saying. That sounds like a possibility indeed.

As for the Fire/Electric moves available on dragons, yeah, many dragons are able to utilise those two moves in particular. However, they tend to mess up these legendaries by giving them "specific" moves that fit their elements. I don't like how they do that with legendaries most of the time; an Ice legend is almost always stuck with just Ice moves, Lightning legends with mostly electric moves, and Fire legends with mostly Fire moves. That's how it usually ends up for the minor legendaries at least. I did state before that perhaps the original dragon was just "dragon", but I wouldn't want them to undermine the cool Ice type it has...but knowing Gamefreak... they PROBABLY WILL D:<

Ground/Dragon? Not another Garchomp/Flygon!

[Gin]

To 'fix' Kyurem, they need to first do the following:
A)Fix its stats
B)Fix its movepool
C)Give it flavor or make it standout
D)fix its appearance
I also don't like its typing, but I don't see how they'll get away with fixing that.

[wraith89]

To 'fix' Kyurem, they need to first do the following:
A)Fix its stats
B)Fix its movepool
C)Give it flavor or make it standout
D)fix its appearance
I also don't like its typing, but I don't see how they'll get away with fixing that.

Quoted For Truth

I just like its Ice typing because I'm just too much of an Ice type fan and it does provide a good offensive dual STAB. Defensively, yeah, not happening, but it hurts a lot.

Keep in mind the fact that Kyurem IS lacking flavour is the very reason it is standing out.

[RoverTX]

This might seem like a weird question but when it comes to the ability Solorbeam is the fact that the charge step is skipped when its sunny programed into the move itself or is it the weather condition? If it is the later might these moves fire off on the first turn with hail and the reason this hasn't been found out yet is that people are looking in the wrong place? Also, I hope they don't add another form that just seems lazy and makes it so you can't even battle friends with the new forms since the older version don't have the info.....

Edit: it also isn't beat up, if you look at it from behind it seems to actually be symmetrical and intact, its just the really really bad head on sprite..

[Gin]

I don't actually understand above post. Slightly on topic, Kyurem apparently froze itself. Could this mean it is the dumbest pokemon since Slowbro?

[Adiana]

According to the pokedex entry on the Black version, it generates its "freezing energy" inside its body, but the energy leaks out (how, I've no idea). So, it became frozen from excessive energy production. Or something.

...I really don't know. It sounded better in my head.

(Though maybe the energy leaks out due to the fact that it is an incomplete being/the shell of the original dragon?)

[KyoMcFizzle]

It's a weather condition. When it's sunny, Solar Beam skips the charge phase and can be used in rapid succession. Weather effects also effect certain moves like so:

In Hail:
All non-Ice type Pokémon are damaged each turn
Bizzard's accuracy is increased to 100%, being able to break through Protect & Detect 25% of the time
Synthesis. Morning Sun & Moonlight recover 25% of user's HP
Pokémon with the Ice Body Ability have 1/16th of their max HP recovered each turn
Pokémon with the Snow Cloak Ability have their evasion boosted by 20%. Outside battle in 216 & 217, if head of the party, the wild encounter rate is decreased by 50%
Castform transforms into a Ice type Pokémon
The attack Weather Ball's Power doubles and becomes Ice Type

In Rain:
Water Type move's Base Power is increased by 50%
Fire Type move's Base Power is decreased by 50%
Solar Beam requires two turns of charge
Thunder's accuracy is increased to 100%, being able to break through Protect & Detect 25% of the time
Gale's accuracy is increased to 100%, being able to break through Protect & Detect 25% of the time
Synthesis. Morning Sun & Moonlight recover 25% of user's HP
Pokémon with the Dry Skin Ability recovers HP every turn and 1/4 its HP when hit by a Water Attack
Pokémon with the Hydration Ability are cured from status afflictions whenever it rains
Pokémon with the Rain Dish Ability have 1/16th of their max HP recovered each turn
Pokémon with the Swift Swim Ability have their Speed raised
Castform transforms into a Water type Pokémon
The attack Weather Ball's Power doubles and becomes Water Type

In Sunny:
Fire Type move's Base Power is increased by 50%
Water Type move's Base Power is decreased by 50%
Solar Beam does not require charging
Thunder's accuracy is reduced to 50%
Gale's accuracy is reduced to 50%
Synthesis. Morning Sun & Moonlight recover 100% of user's HP
Pokémon with the Chlorophyll Ability have their Speed raised
Pokémon with the Dry Skin Ability received double damage from Fire attacks and loses HP each turn
Cherrim's Flower Gift Ability increases it's Attack & Special Attack and changes it's form
Pokémon with the Leaf Guard Ability are protected from status afflictions
Pokémon with the Solar Power Ability have their Special Attack raised but HP lowered
Castform transforms into a Fire type Pokémon
The attack Weather Ball's Power doubles and becomes Fire Type

In Sand Storm:
All non-Rock, Ground or Steel type Pokémon are damaged each turn
Rock type Pokémon's Special Defense is increased by 50%
Solar Beam power is reduced
Thunder's accuracy is reduced to 50%
Synthesis. Morning Sun & Moonlight recover 25% of user's HP
Pokémon with the Sand Veil Ability have their evasion boosted by 20%. Outside battle in 111 & 228, if head of the party, the wild encounter rate is decreased by 50%
Pokémon with the Sand Strength Ability have their Ground, Steel & Rock move strength increased by one stage
The Weather Ball attack's Power doubles and becomes Rock Type

EDIT: I'm so bad. Look at me. I should be doing homework and instead I'm here talking about Pokemon. Bad me. *wristslap*

[RoverTX]

Sorry I should have been clearer that I was asking a technical question. What I was trying to say is basically this. There is something with in the programing for the move Solarbeam or in the programing for sunny weather that causes the charge stepped for Solarbeam to be skipped. I don't' know how the programing goes but I have in my head that it is something like one of these two possibilities.

Within solarbeam's code

If SunnyWeather then
Skip Charge Step And Fire Away

or within SunnyWeather's code

If Solarbeam is Used
Skip Charge Step and Fire Away

If it is the later could hail have a similar effect on them(ie Kyurem's two Ice Charge up moves) , as sunny weather does to solarbeam, thus making them not completely worthless, and the reason people aren't seeing this is that they are looking inside the moves for the trigger(ie a trigger to skip the charge phase) and not inside the weather effect. Does that make since, I am not asking about what weather does, I am asking about the structure of the programing itself with regards to solarbeam and similar moves.

IN SHORT: I have been playing pokemon from Blue and Red I understand the game, I am asking about the actually code itself and where different things might be triggered with in it.

Crappy Java Code to show what I mean, I know Pokemon isn't programed in Java and this code is horrible its just to prove a point.

public class Solarbeam implements Move{
int countDown = 1;
....
....
public int use(pokemon target, pokemon user){
if(getWeather().equals("Sunny"))
countDown = 0;
.......
if(countDown == 0)
damage(target, 120, Grass, user);
}
}

or is it something like

public class Sunny implements Weather{
....
....
public int check(pokemon target, pokemon user, move targetMove, move userMove){
....
....
if(userMove.isInstanceOf(SolarBeam))
userMove.lowerCountDown(0);
userMove.Use(w/e);
}
}