Creation of the universe: Darwin or Bible

[pokemonfan]

So we all know that somehow this world we all live in today, the entire universe came to be. The complexities of everything right down to mitosis all had to happen somehow. So how do you think that it happened. Darwin's theory has something to do with ooze that became X which became X which became X which became X and so on and then X turned into us or humans. The bible states that God created everything in 6 days on the 7th day he rested. I think those are the two main ones on the subject of creation. Please post your opinion and back up your answer...now for mine...

You see I believe in the bible. I think it makes more sense and I believe the bible to be 100% truth. The actual probability that over billions and billions of years the universe fell into the precise location it lies in is just inprobable. The actual idea that over billions of years the earth formed into the exact location it is now in order to sustain life. If our planet was just a little bit off where it is now life would be unable to exist! The actual theory that life came from inanimate ooze that was zapped by who knows what is just well 0.

The scientists that back this thing say that miracles are impossible because they dont see it and it is not able to be replicated. Well....what about your ooze! Did you see it? "well know it was X years ago no one was around..." is it able to be replicated? "Well know it is a once in an existance thing it can only happen once..." well then you are incorrect by your own basis.

Well you know how they say that the ooze goes to X and then X well then how come there is not a single legit fossil record of a transspecies creature? Your answer-because they dont exist. The whole theory in my opinion is nonsense and the guy who made it up and his offspring are now filthy rich because of it and because of money no one is able to stop them.

There are a lot of wholes in the theory and the earth does not top 10000 years of age. The bible has the answers and I believe to be the greatest historical record in the history of man kind. The whole evolution thing just has to many wholes to believe in. Ok, there is my argument. Now what do you say?

[wraith89]

I'm actually writing an article about this... but I will need more support regarding this information. But if someone brings up something, I will try to answer them the best I can... so please wait

[Poryhack]

Darwin is not known for his ideas on the creation of the universe, at least get that part straight before you make a debate thread.

[wraith89]

Darwin is not known for his ideas on the creation of the universe, at least get that part straight before you make a debate thread.

He was more concerned with the origins of species, I believe.

[HottSushiz]

So we all know that somehow this world we all

You see I believe in the bible. I think it makes more sense and I believe the bible to be 100% truth. The actual probability that over billions and billions of years the universe fell into the precise location it lies in is just inprobable. The actual idea that over billions of years the earth formed into the exact location it is now in order to sustain life. If our planet was just a little bit off where it is now life would be unable to exist! The actual theory that life came from inanimate ooze that was zapped by who knows what is just well 0.

That's me answer earth, is placed perfectly, if it's a tiny bit near the sun, we would all burn up, and if earth was a little bit further, we would all freeze, i think it's strange, that the ooze, or whatever, thought of an idea of putting the earth there, i know it's God's doing.

If you have visited church, people are getting saved, either emotionally, or physically, like last Sunday, we had an Healing Service, and this one boy, he was deaf at birth, or something, which made him have to use a hearing aid, when it was his turn to get prayed for, and healed, the pastor shouted to take off his hearing aids, thus the pastor, and everyone around started praying, and the boy asks his mum why are people so loud, and his mum started crying.

there has been numerous cases where the patient is healed, and the doctors are fumbling trying to figure out, like once there was a guy he was due to die from cancer like a week away, and when he asked for the prayer request, he miraculously healed, the doctor's were astonished, there wasn't any trace of Cancer left.

[darklord]

Spoiler

So we all know that somehow this world we all live in today, the entire universe came to be. The complexities of everything right down to mitosis all had to happen somehow. So how do you think that it happened. Darwin's theory has something to do with ooze that became X which became X which became X which became X and so on and then X turned into us or humans. The bible states that God created everything in 6 days on the 7th day he rested. I think those are the two main ones on the subject of creation. Please post your opinion and back up your answer...now for mine...

You see I believe in the bible. I think it makes more sense and I believe the bible to be 100% truth. The actual probability that over billions and billions of years the universe fell into the precise location it lies in is just inprobable. The actual idea that over billions of years the earth formed into the exact location it is now in order to sustain life. If our planet was just a little bit off where it is now life would be unable to exist! The actual theory that life came from inanimate ooze that was zapped by who knows what is just well 0.

The scientists that back this thing say that miracles are impossible because they dont see it and it is not able to be replicated. Well....what about your ooze! Did you see it? "well know it was X years ago no one was around..." is it able to be replicated? "Well know it is a once in an existance thing it can only happen once..." well then you are incorrect by your own basis.

Well you know how they say that the ooze goes to X and then X well then how come there is not a single legit fossil record of a transspecies creature? Your answer-because they dont exist. The whole theory in my opinion is nonsense and the guy who made it up and his offspring are now filthy rich because of it and because of money no one is able to stop them.

There are a lot of wholes in the theory and the earth does not top 10000 years of age. The bible has the answers and I believe to be the greatest historical record in the history of man kind. The whole evolution thing just has to many wholes to believe in. Ok, there is my argument. Now what do you say?

i'm sorry but someone must take the side of darwin your say you can't make that ooze again but why would you you evolve when the speces is in trouble or needs food so the "ooze" would easel die and i'm sorry for all this but a god putting everting thing into place semen's a little out there but the theory that a planet explode and the rock came together and formed earth and then got water is not no offense to you beliefs

[kuoleva]

Oh, wow. I hate to be rude, m'dear, but there are FAR more creation myths than the bible and Darwin, who wasn't even famous for "creation". Personally, I believe there is a god, yes, but not your god. This is going to come off mean, but I'm not sugarcoating it.

God might be real. God might be not. I do not say "he", because that would imply I follow your religion. And to be perfectly honest, I did work at a day-care in a pentecostal church, and I think most churches brainwash their kids. I'm pagan, and by the grace of the Lord and Lady the pastor didn't find out for a time, and I was allowed to work there. What they spoon fed to those kids was horrible. Everything was literally retold to make Darwin as a blasphemer and liar, without even telling them about him. They said, "Jesus is good, Darwin will make you go to hell." And even went so far as to tell them to follow the bible WORD FOR WORD. These aren't really even kids, they're all just two years younger than me. When they found out I was a pagan, (my pentacle fell out of my shirt one day), I honestly and truly was scared they would burn or stone me. I'm not saying all followers of Christianity are like that, Goddess, no, but my experiences were bad enough to label most of them as psychopaths. I rambled a bit there, but you do get my point. This might be a generalization, but most conservative religious people see the world as black and white. If you think, even for a MOMENT that this might all be a ploy and scam, you are shunned from neighborhoods, communities, and even families. My grandmother and I haven't said a word to each other in over a year, because of her being so narrow minded.

Please, for the love of humanity, broaden your horizons. Read the Qur'an. I did. Read the Vedas, Tantras, Puranas, and Epicas. I did. Read something other than what the bible or your pastor gives you. Like I said, I'm not sugarcoating it. Believe what you want, but at least read up, from an UNBIASED source, on topics like this before you bash on them. I read the bible. I do not agree with it. But, at least I can say I read the entire damn thing, and not look like an idiot when I say "LOL i dun liek ur belifs", unlike how most Christians I've encountered are when they ask me why I'm in the Church of Satan, (I'm not, but I have friends who are, and READ ON IT, not from your bible, or religious newspapers or shows, before you give me the evil eye here), when I'm wearing my pentacle and triple moon necklaces.

Back on topic, I DO believe in creation, to an extent. Where did the first cell come from? As a (Christian, mind you, friend) put it, "rock + rock =/= cell". I do believe the universal force that we personify as god gave us, basically, a little nudge out of the door. Natural selection took over the rest. I believe the Lord and Lady just leave us to our own devices. I believe they won't smite me to eternal damnation just because I won't give them an ego boost.

Oh well, I'm out of rant fuel right now. If you didn't read any of that, go to...

http://www.religioustolerance.org

It's unbiased, true, open, and my own favourite website. Read it. Learn it. Think before you speak. I may have read your post wrong, but it honestly sounded like you were simply bashing Darwin's theories instead of helping your own argument.

/sigh

[wraith89]

Oh, wow. I hate to be rude, m'dear, but there are FAR more creation myths than the bible and Darwin, who wasn't even famous for "creation". Personally, I believe there is a god, yes, but not your god. This is going to come off mean, but I'm not sugarcoating it.

The funny thing is, the Creation story from the Bible sounds more plausible than the others. Yes, there are many creation myths, but have you read the others? Like how the Mesopotamian one has two mortal gods fighting each other and one was killed and his eyes bled the Tigris and the Euphrates. With all these myths around, you do realize that it does have a common source from a story, right? The Biblical account does not have these outlandish claims that the other stories provide and therefore seems to be the root of them all. The Mesopotamian culture is recorded in the Bible... and not exactly on a good note :-/

If you look at Darwin's theory, there are problems in it. Darwinism in itself is religion. You have the god "time" working through everything and changing rocks into dogs and the goddess "nature" selecting who is fit and who isn't. Honestly, I think schools should stop brainwashing kids with Darwinism when it in itself has not been proven. Why do people "believe" in evolution instead of stating it is truly a fact? To me, evolution really sounds like a glorified Gladiator's Game that took place in BILLIONS of years. It's simply a fairy tale for biologists... who like to camouflage the words "Once upon a time" into "billions of years". So they believe if you kiss a frog and wait a billion of years, the frog will become a prince... just beautiful. That comparison sounds ridiculous, but it actually does parallel what the actual belief is saying.

God might be real. God might be not. I do not say "he", because that would imply I follow your religion. And to be perfectly honest, I did work at a day-care in a pentecostal church, and I think most churches brainwash their kids. I'm pagan, and by the grace of the Lord and Lady the pastor didn't find out for a time, and I was allowed to work there. What they spoon fed to those kids was horrible. Everything was literally retold to make Darwin as a blasphemer and liar, without even telling them about him. They said, "Jesus is good, Darwin will make you go to hell." And even went so far as to tell them to follow the bible WORD FOR WORD. These aren't really even kids, they're all just two years younger than me. When they found out I was a pagan, (my pentacle fell out of my shirt one day), I honestly and truly was scared they would burn or stone me. I'm not saying all followers of Christianity are like that, Goddess, no, but my experiences were bad enough to label most of them as psychopaths. I rambled a bit there, but you do get my point. This might be a generalization, but most conservative religious people see the world as black and white. If you think, even for a MOMENT that this might all be a ploy and scam, you are shunned from neighborhoods, communities, and even families. My grandmother and I haven't said a word to each other in over a year, because of her being so narrow minded.

What if it was you who was narrow minded? Believe in what you will... and yes, being a conservative, I do see things as black and white... I see very little room for greys in objective ideas although greys do exist in subjective areas. Truth itself must be objective; it is not subjective. I don't agree with pushing your ideas unto others, but if you earnestly seek the truth, you WILL find it... but don't follow a path just because it is to your liking. Sometimes, the truth is not what it seems to be. People bend the truth and say it is relative, but that destroys the very essence of truth. Bad experiences from people shouldn't deter you from the truth. I'll tell you straight up... personally, I HATE CHURCH PEOPLE... VERY MUCH. Many of them just seem to be lukewarm... they don't seem to have faith strong enough to show you that they're Christian at all. Many think it is just a social event and whatnot... and the corruption that seeped into the churches has become too strong. But does that stop me from my actual faith? I'm curious to know how you became a pagan, maybe you ought to say that someplace.

Please, for the love of humanity, broaden your horizons. Read the Qur'an. I did. Read the Vedas, Tantras, Puranas, and Epicas. I did. Read something other than what the bible or your pastor gives you. Like I said, I'm not sugarcoating it. Believe what you want, but at least read up, from an UNBIASED source, on topics like this before you bash on them. I read the bible. I do not agree with it. But, at least I can say I read the entire **** thing, and not look like an idiot when I say "LOL i dun liek ur belifs", unlike how most Christians I've encountered are when they ask me why I'm in the Church of Satan, (I'm not, but I have friends who are, and READ ON IT, not from your bible, or religious newspapers or shows, before you give me the evil eye here), when I'm wearing my pentacle and triple moon necklaces.

Believe me, I read myths and other religious texts for fun... but none of them compare with the Bible... from what I've been reading, the Bible is unique. BTW are you a Wiccan or something? I know Wiccans are NOT Satanists, don't worry, but I still need to study what your belief is about before saying anything. I do know Hindus believe that all paths lead to one... and what many of these religious beliefs are teaching. I am NOT ignorant of other belief systems. I don't need to go on to say what the Qu'ran is actually promoting... because that would go off topic. Keep this topic to be about creationism vs evolution.

Back on topic, I DO believe in creation, to an extent. Where did the first cell come from? As a (Christian, mind you, friend) put it, "rock + rock =/= cell". I do believe the universal force that we personify as god gave us, basically, a little nudge out of the door. Natural selection took over the rest. I believe the Lord and Lady just leave us to our own devices. I believe they won't smite me to eternal damnation just because I won't give them an ego boost.

Oh well, I'm out of rant fuel right now. If you didn't read any of that, go to...

http://www.religioustolerance.org

It's unbiased, true, open, and my own favourite website. Read it. Learn it. Think before you speak. I may have read your post wrong, but it honestly sounded like you were simply bashing Darwin's theories instead of helping your own argument.

If crevolution is how the world started out as, I would never believe in such an evil God. Even if He did exist, I would be a rebel against Him. Fortunately, the God I believe in is an absolute being, flawless in every way, and therefore would not employ the evil Roman gladiator system that evolution seems to imply. Crevolution is just another way to say Deism.

More New Age philosophy... *sigh* unfortunately, truth itself is intolerant; it is absolute. There's no way easy way out of everything... the very belief of tolerance and that all paths lead to one just sounds spurious. Call me intolerant, but truth itself needs to be narrow in order to maintain its nature as... well, being the truth. Don't try to teach tolerance here though... yes, we can respect each other for what we all believe in, but there is no way the ecumenical movement will ever work out. All religions are radically different in every way... you simply cannot combine them and say they all lead to the same path.

There, I guess that's it for my ranting...

[kuoleva]

Spoiler

The funny thing is, the Creation story from the Bible sounds more plausible than the others. Yes, there are many creation myths, but have you read the others? Like how the Mesopotamian one has two mortal gods fighting each other and one was killed and his eyes bled the Tigris and the Euphrates. With all these myths around, you do realize that it does have a common source from a story, right? The Biblical account does not have these outlandish claims that the other stories provide and therefore seems to be the root of them all. The Mesopotamian culture is recorded in the Bible... and not exactly on a good note :-/

If you look at Darwin's theory, there are problems in it. Darwinism in itself is religion. You have the god "time" working through everything and changing rocks into dogs and the goddess "nature" selecting who is fit and who isn't. Honestly, I think schools should stop brainwashing kids with Darwinism when it in itself has not been proven. Why do people "believe" in evolution instead of stating it is truly a fact? To me, evolution really sounds like a glorified Gladiator's Game that took place in BILLIONS of years. It's simply a fairy tale for biologists... who like to camouflage the words "Once upon a time" into "billions of years". So they believe if you kiss a frog and wait a billion of years, the frog will become a prince... just beautiful. That comparison sounds ridiculous, but it actually does parallel what the actual belief is saying.



What if it was you who was narrow minded? Believe in what you will... and yes, being a conservative, I do see things as black and white... I see very little room for greys in objective ideas although greys do exist in subjective areas. Truth itself must be objective; it is not subjective. I don't agree with pushing your ideas unto others, but if you earnestly seek the truth, you WILL find it... but don't follow a path just because it is to your liking. Sometimes, the truth is not what it seems to be. People bend the truth and say it is relative, but that destroys the very essence of truth. Bad experiences from people shouldn't deter you from the truth. I'll tell you straight up... personally, I HATE CHURCH PEOPLE... VERY MUCH. Many of them just seem to be lukewarm... they don't seem to have faith strong enough to show you that they're Christian at all. Many think it is just a social event and whatnot... and the corruption that seeped into the churches has become too strong. But does that stop me from my actual faith? I'm curious to know how you became a pagan, maybe you ought to say that someplace.



Believe me, I read myths and other religious texts for fun... but none of them compare with the Bible... from what I've been reading, the Bible is unique. BTW are you a Wiccan or something? I know Wiccans are NOT Satanists, don't worry, but I still need to study what your belief is about before saying anything. I do know Hindus believe that all paths lead to one... and what many of these religious beliefs are teaching. I am NOT ignorant of other belief systems. I don't need to go on to say what the Qu'ran is actually promoting... because that would go off topic. Keep this topic to be about creationism vs evolution.



If crevolution is how the world started out as, I would never believe in such an evil God. Even if He did exist, I would be a rebel against Him. Fortunately, the God I believe in is an absolute being, flawless in every way, and therefore would not employ the evil Roman gladiator system that evolution seems to imply. Crevolution is just another way to say Deism.

More New Age philosophy... *sigh* unfortunately, truth itself is intolerant; it is absolute. There's no way easy way out of everything... the very belief of tolerance and that all paths lead to one just sounds spurious. Call me intolerant, but truth itself needs to be narrow in order to maintain its nature as... well, being the truth. Don't try to teach tolerance here though... yes, we can respect each other for what we all believe in, but there is no way the ecumenical movement will ever work out. All religions are radically different in every way... you simply cannot combine them and say they all lead to the same path.

There, I guess that's it for my ranting...

True, true. I do applaud you, however, for sticking true to your faith through all the idiots making you look insane.

Darwinism can be considered a religion, indeed. I believe schools should teach kids about different world religions, not as right or wrong, but simply as a possibility. In all, true honesty, Darwins theory of evolution is not something I really believe in. I do believe that we did get stronger and smarter, as you can see quite obviously, and like you said, it is a bit of a gladiator tournament. Yet, as much of a hippie as I am, I think that's what life really is. A gladiator tournament. We are our own demise. No devil poking people and saying "hey, you should kill this guy".

Oh, dear, the devil. How I hate that concept. Everyone can be both "good" and "evil", the very definitions of which are subjective. I believe that we are all "grey matter". What side we choose to show the most defines us. I'm naturally a good-natured person. I'm probably one of the kindest people you'd ever meet, and people have told me so. I say this not to brag, but to point out I have an evil side, I just choose to keep it hidden, for the most part. But, that doesn't mean it's not there. I'm bisexual. I'm not really afraid to admit it. I believe love cannot be limited by gender. If one day I woke up and I was in love with one of my best (girl) friends, I'd be okay with it, because I don't believe sexual preference can be defined as "good" or "bad". I know I probably don't make a lot of sense, but what I'm trying to say is that there aren't any absolutes. As much as people try to deny it, I have yet to meet anyone that hasn't ever questioned themselves or their beliefs.

As for considering myself narrow-minded, of course I have. I accepted my family's beliefs. I'm fine with it. They, however, do not accept mine. I guess it's always going to be like that. That is why I consider them to be narrow minded. I'm sure they think the same of me. I'll use social circles to explain it.

The "goth kids" will always think they're better because the other cliques are stupid.

Replace "goth kids" with any other type of clique. It's true. You can't deny it. I've hung out with the "preps". They make fun of the "emos". Vice versa.



As for me being Wiccan, no, I don't exactly consider myself part of that branch of NeoPaganism. If you want, I can explain why I believe the way I do, what I believe, and how I came to believe it. It digs pretty deep into my personal life, though. It's not that I have a problem with talking about it, it's just that I'm sure you don't want to hear it. It's one of those tl;dr things. :/

[Okami]

I believe wholeheartedly in the truth of Genesis.

This is not simply some religion for me. In fact, I don't follow a religion. I am a Christ-follower, a Christian as they may call them, in a very personal, very spiritual sense. It is my being and my everything.

This thing I have with God, it's a relationship. A real, true and powerful, intimate love relationship. Think of a newlywed man and woman, the passion they feel for each other and the zeal they have for life. That is me to my Lord and Saviour, Jesus.

He was this guy who healed broken lives, and I have felt this healing in my life. He humbly laid His life down, and gave Himself to men to die an excruciating death on a Roman cross. And then, three days later, rose. Conquering death. He proved to even His own doubting disciples who He was, once again. Amazing.

That is Genesis. Birth. Death. Restoration.

God said let there be light, and there was light. Universe. One spoke word.
"Uni" = One and "Verse" = spoken word.

That is what I simply believe, nothing less. The signs are everywhere, His fingerprints detailed in our very blood. Nothing anyone could ever say will change this for me, because I simply know it is true, it screams it in my heart and in my mind. There's no going back. I am His. :]

[wraith89]

I believe wholeheartedly in the truth of Genesis.

This is not simply some religion for me. In fact, I don't follow a religion. I am a Christ-follower, a Christian as they may call them, in a very personal, very spiritual sense. It is my being and my everything.

This thing I have with God, it's a relationship. A real, true and powerful, intimate love relationship. Think of a newlywed man and woman, the passion they feel for each other and the zeal they have for life. That is me to my Lord and Saviour, Jesus.

He was this guy who healed broken lives, and I have felt this healing in my life. He humbly laid His life down, and gave Himself to men to die an excruciating death on a Roman cross. And then, three days later, rose. Conquering death. He proved to even His own doubting disciples who He was, once again. Amazing.

That is Genesis. Birth. Death. Restoration.

God said let there be light, and there was light. Universe. One spoke word. "Uni" = One and "Verse" = spoken word.

That is what I simply believe, nothing less. The signs are everywhere, His fingerprints detailed in our very blood. Nothing anyone could ever say will change this for me, because I simply know it is true, it screams it in my heart and in my mind. There's no going back. I am His. :]

Beautiful

That's very true. Christianity is not a religion. God is the very enemy of religion... for He is absolute. Therefore He demands the truth; the unadulterated whole truth. He IS the Truth (with the capital T mind you). Christianity itself is a relationship with God Himself. I see no other belief system that allows man to have personal relationship with the Creator of the world.

So people always ask me if God wanted a relationship with man, why didn't He make us love Him? The answer is simple: love itself is a choice: you cannot make people love someone. So God gave you a way through Christ... you either choose to accept and love Him... or reject Him. That's the beauty of free will.

As for me, yes, I believe in a literal 6 day creation and a ~ 6000 year old Earth. Going to a pro-evolution college, I'm always ridiculed for my stance. Blah, doesn't matter. Nothing's changing my stance... because this world has nothing for me.

[Greencat]

I thought Darwin's Theory was the Theory of Evolution and Selective Breeding? o.O?

[wraith89]

I thought Darwin's Theory was the Theory of Evolution and Selective Breeding? o.O?

Yes, it is the Theory of Evolution stemming off his book: The Origin of Species. The full title is: On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life

[Akaria]

Creation of the universe?

Numbers, probability, time, various electrons knocking into the other to be very vague.

That's my thoughts anyway.

[wraith89]

Creation of the universe?

Numbers, probability, time, various electrons knocking into the other to be very vague.

That's my thoughts anyway.

And all that was supposed to come out of nothing? An absolute must have been there from the start for something to happen.

Universe = Uni + Verse = One + Word
"In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth"