I'm not suggesting Smogon should never exist. Smogon is a good website to help set certain guidelines and I do use it from time to time. They have good articles, have a damage calculator which is very useful, but it's just how people use it that bugs me. I'd be rich if I had a single unit of money for every time someone said "Smogon is always right" or the likes. I hate standardization in general... and it seems most people do that and always follow what they say. "X outclasses Y so don't ever use Y!" What if Y is my favorite Pokemon? If I had the right support, I'm sure I can make it work. I've done it a few times after all. Now okay, some Pokemon obviously won't work (Unown, Ditto, etc...) but stuff like, I don't know, Seaking. Seaking can be a beast if used properly, even if it requires more support than Gyarados. I never really liked that... I want to enjoy battling, there will be some gains and some losses, but there is nothing more satisfying than destroying your opponent with a Luvdisc or something. Standardization... yawn :/

Most of them don't even know why the EV spreads are made as such. Even in Wifi, I see everybody with Seismic Toss and Wish Blissey and I'm wondering where they even got that. Wish is a NY event, and Seismic Toss is a FRLG move tutor. Half the people out there don't even know that and just stick event moves on their Pokemon, hack it with the right Hidden Power, etc... it's rather frustrating.

What does bug me about Smogon is... for some Pokemon they don't care about, they put in "what works" and just stop there. Look at the article for Victreebel and Noctowl for example. They still did not put a viable physical Victreebel set in either... when it can easily abuse Sleep Powder/Leaf Blade/Sucker Punch/Return/Leaf Storm/Swords Dance/whatever... and their Opinion even states "SD Vicky can't work cuz it only has Razor Leaf and Return DURRR"... so some people won't even find out that it does have a physical potential. That page hasn't been edited since what, the DP times? Oh, now you ask me what a Victreebel is. Stop staring at Breloom for a second (no offense Breloom, you're cool) and look down... that pitcher plant there that always devoured James... yeah, that thing. Oh, it's outclassed by Leafeon? I don't remember Leafeon having a part Poison typing or a "reliable" Sleeping move or the ability to attack in the special side as well as the physical. People have to stop saying "X outclasses Y so Y should never be used...ever". It's getting really irritating. Noctowl... 252 HP/252 SpDef Calm nature... since it works. Erm, okay... what about, you know, maybe an attacking set? Or something else? Other stuff... Ninetales... 252/252/6 spreads lazily spread all over... Timid nature, yadda yadda yadda. No Imprison set? Imprison would be quite a useful tactic if you sneak in Hidden Power somewhere or whatnot. Okay, maybe not, Imprison would be better off on something like Gardevoir or Mismagius who have really good movepool. I don't know... just the lack of effort to the non-prominent Pokemon bothers me.

And for those who do worship Smogon... there are times where it can make mistakes... just like anybody else. Yes, they can make mistakes in their analysis pages... and I'm surprised people never caught it until much later. There was this one set for a lead Deoxys-A, with Naive nature running 252 SpA/252 Speed with Extremespeed, Superpower, Stealth Rock and Mirror Coat. Never mind the fact it isn't using any SpA... and yet people copied the EV set, the nature, etc... and most people didn't even catch it. They fixed it now with 252 SpA/252 Speed, but before that... yeah, imagine all the ruckus! That's just one example though... and they shouldn't be held accountable for one little misprint, but just saying... >_>

I'd argue SubSeed is just as effective as SubPunch, maybe even more so. Does that make me a sinner? Or better yet, I'm beginning to love SD + Mach Punch + Seed Bomb sets.

I stuck Extrasensory on Ninetales... it proved a lot more useful than Dark Pulse as I was able to hit Infernape, Tentacruel and Gengar for super effective damage, the first two being rather common switch ins for Ninetales. It's true the metagame is teeming with Dark Pokemon (Tyranitar) and Steels (Scizor, Skarmory, Forretress, etc...), but there are times I wish I had that move rather than some other move. Okay, so Psychic is only used on STAB users like Azelf who have nothing better to do, but what about Gengar? I mean, Machamp is scary as heck, comes in, Paybacks you to one shot you while your Shadow Ball cannot claim the same thing. Infernape comes in, survives Shadow Ball, hits back with a Fire Blast that OHKOs Gengar. I found some usefulness in Psychic, even if it means "hai Tyranitar" or something... that's why there's Focus Blast, but that stupid thing misses like 9001 times in a row. Psychic isn't useless, but can be a liability if Tyranitar or a similar Dark Pokemon isn't taken out (but Tyranitar is counterable nonetheless).

Never? Never say never... you never know what kind of scary things a Specs Gyara can pull out. I actually managed to take 3 Pokemon down in a team with a Specs Gyara (won't happen naturally... and it was Skarmory, Scizor and Infernape). I even tried a Specs Scyther with Technician to a similar effect (I believe Air Cutter, HP Fighting 60, Silver Wind, Vacuum Wave or something). If you have the right materials, some cool outcomes can occur. Granted, it's not the BEST way to use Gyarados, but face it, DDGyara is overrated. Whoever said that is the ONLY way to use Gyarados? I love how people are unprepared to take a defensive Gyara... or even the resttalking phazing Gyara. I even made a Choice Scarf revenger Gyara for fun, and it actually worked believe it or not. Yes, I am guilty of using DDGyara a lot (and still enamored by it), enough to sweep teams with it and making Mewtwo EX call it "Steroids" over time... but it's not the ONLY way to use it (like many people say it is).

But you do bring up a good point. One has to be careful when being creative...

In the end, I guess it isn't Smogon's fault, but rather the battling community in general for taking in Smogon religiously like the Competitive Pokemon Bible...

We're headed off topic here... take Smogon discussions into the competitive battling section or whatnot.

Believe it or not, the admins of Smogon say the same thing. An example, if you will. Gastrodon is outclassed by swampert in almost every sense of the word. Yet, Gastrodon has a barely passable Stockpile set that makes it unique. (It's got other stuff now i'm pretty sure, but for this time period, stockpile was the shit). The elites over at Smogon say that this Stockpile set would be perfectly fine to use in an OU metagame, So long as it fills a particular niche in your team, and isn't gimmicky to the point of failure So if you have a Seaking, and you can find a way to make it work on your team, USE IT! It's actually recommended. I mean, everyone usualy knows what to do with Gyarados, but if they see Seaking, they'll be all WTFMate? What do I with this. (This can also bait your opponent into making a bad move, if you can make them believe you're a bad player)

I fail to see how it is the fault of smogon, if noobs are running around with illegal move spreads. I'm pretty sure in most of the articles, they post reasons why certain moves aren't paired together. (How broken would blissey be if it could have Wish, 3rd gen tutor move, and aromatherapy, 4th gen egg move)

The thing here, is that Victreebell and Ninetails don't see a lot of action. Not a whole lot of people care enough to use them; HOWEVER, if you feel that there are other viable sets, then you are more than welcome to register for an account there, and following the proper procedures, submit a new set. If it is indeed viable (you will need to prove it as such) they will post it up on the site.

Smogon has since rectified this. They now have 3 layers of building a set Step 1) The proposal Step2) Peer review, concise and corrections Step3) Peer edit for spelling errors etc. Regardless, No-one is perfect. If you think that, you're a fool. It is up to those who wish to use a set to double check why these things are done. If you can't spot an error such as Spa on a Atk set, shame on you. If you do spot an error, report it.

Sub seeding is often the same as sub puncing. SD set is alright, but Brelooms counters will still counter the hell out of you. In fact, you make it easier for most of them.



This is a niche role, it benefits your team, so is perfectly fine. I said it wasn't really recommended, not that it should never be used. Afterall, I could say fire types aren't recommended do to flash fire, rocks, and water types, but most people still use them, simply because their useful, in many situations.

Yes Specs gyara will never work, you got lucky on one occasion. I've never seen scyther's stats or movepools, so i can't judge the validity of that. as for the rest of the gyara, nobody said there was only one to play gyara. Smogon includes multiple sets for a reason, it is everyone else who uses Gyara, simply because it is one of the best roles gyara can fill. Bulkygyara, is cool. Rest Talking is a horrid strategy and I will never use. Reason; you have a 1/3 chance of not doing anything at all. 2/3 if your opponent is immune to one of your moves. Pure sleep talking, as a counter to sleepers, is okay imo, but pure sleeptalking is pointless.

You're right, it isn't smogons fault. They just offered suggestions to what to use, because they are good strategies, while trying to balance out the game as much as possible. To those who say balancing=bad; you will find that Smash Brothers, Yu-Gi-Oh, and many other competitive style game, would like to have a word with you.