Kyurem: A Speculation Thread [Archive] - Project Pokémon Forums

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wraith89

Mar 26th, 2011, 09:08 PM

031Introduction

This is Wraith trying to spark up an intelligent conversation here on Project Pokemon (http://www.projectpokemon.org/). Intelligent conversation (http://projectpokemon.org/forums/showthread.php?6504-General-Pokesav-Request-thread)? Here on Project Pokemon? Insane right? I know! And this is me going overboard on a very simple subject, so bear with me.

http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/7960/646kyurem.png

I'm sure you were all drooling over the Blazing Glory of the elegant Reshiram or the Electrifying Brilliance of the powerful Zekrom when you were all playing Pokemon Black and White... but have you stopped to consider that monster living deep inside Giant Chasm, Kyurem? While we do not know its relationship with Reshiram and Zekrom, there are many things that suggest Kyurem is indeed related to the other two. But what? Before we find out, let us see what people think about Kyurem.

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/6635/gint.png"It's a giant Zergling!"
~ Gin

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/8420/tbird.png"It's an angry dancing chicken!"
~ Tbird

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/8642/mewtwoex.png"... still no match for me!"
~ Mewtwo EX

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/9894/underxray.png"Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww X_X"
~ UnderXRay

http://img858.imageshack.us/img858/3217/wraith89.png"What is this I don't even-"
~ Wraith89

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/8420/tbird.png"Bawk bawk bawk-"
~ Tbird

http://img858.imageshack.us/img858/3217/wraith89.png"Yeah but-"
~ Wraith89

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/8420/tbird.png"Bawk bawk!"
~ Tbird

http://img858.imageshack.us/img858/3217/wraith89.png"You know-"
~ Wraith89

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/8420/tbird.png"Baaaaaaawwwwkkk!"
~ Tbird

http://img858.imageshack.us/img858/3217/wraith89.png"Fine! It's a giant dancing chicken! Happy? :/"
~ Wraith89

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/8420/tbird.png"This thread is now Tbird :creep:"
~ Tbird

There is no doubt that not many Pokemon has raised as much eyebrows in Black and White as this mysterious icy dragon has. As you can see, there is not enough positive reception about this new dragon. Many just do not see its potential, and many are disappointed at what it turned out to become. But what if there is more to Kyurem than meets the eye? What if this dragon is not just a "filler" Pokemon as most of the other Unova Pokemon seem to be? First, I think we should try to understand what we DO KNOW about Kyurem. But of course, this thing ties to Reshiram and Zekrom in some way, so we need to find its connection between the two as well. Be warned, there will be spoilers in this section, so if you have not completed Pokemon Black and White's main storyline, then avert your gaze.

031History of Unova Region

http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/9243/250pxreshiramzekromanim.png

As N tells the story...

It is stated the two dragons were once one dragon. Yep, just one powerful dragon. Imagine how much powerful this one unified dragon would have been in comparison to the already powerful Reshiram and Zekrom we have right now. However, the split happened when these twin heroes who found the Unova region (Romulus and Remus anyone?) had different ideas on how to rule the region. The older brother wanted truth, while the younger brother wanted ideals. The dragon, who was used by both of them, did not know how to settle this, so it split into two. Reshiram would side with the older brother who sought truth, while Zekrom would side with the younger brother who sought ideals. The two fought in a catastrophic battle, but of course, as all of these plots go, neither of them could truly be considered better than the other, as both were equally powerful and all (face it, we all know that-*gets shot*) so the two brothers declared truce. They also reconciled their differences and said there really was no right side either, as both are needed for a reason. Yay, so we don't have a Romulus/Remus story here! But of course what happens?

Their sons continue the fight of course. Yeah, next generation are always filled with idiots, as seen in real life too. They did not heed their fathers' resolutions, and released the two beasts once again, causing a fight between the two once again. Joy. But what do destructive terrorists do again? Oh yeah, they destroy the region! Brilliant... all just to settle some philosophical differences? Right, smart people we have running Unova here. Destroying Unova with their Fire and Lightning powers during the war, you can imagine a lot of people and Pokemon lost their habitats and some even their lives during this struggle. The sons of the heroes probably realised this way too late before this catastrophe occurred. As for Reshiram and Zekrom? They probably realised this was just too pointless and causing wanton destruction, so the two left from the aftermath, never to be seen again...

109Modern Unova Strife: SPOILERS START HERE

... until now, in this modern generation, N wants to use one of the dragons to create his ideal world where he wants to make a separate world for Pokemon and humans, and you, the protagonist, must stop him from doing so. Recreating the whole dragon fight once again, it seems N has convinced his dragon to join his side somehow, and give the hero time to get the other dragon, because he is convinced the hero is the one made to battle him. N decides to fight the Pokemon League Champion Alder to prove himself the most powerful trainer in Unova, and eventually, release all Pokemon so there will be a separate world for them and humans, so that they will not suffer under humans any longer. A story PETA would be proud of, huh?

N goes to Dragonspiral and takes the dragon that lay on top of it. Then he does defeat Alder somehow (Alder, how can you let your Level 77 Volcarona fall to N's Pokemon again?) and it is up to the protagonist to defeat N. N's castle rises and overtakes the Pokemon League, and the hero pursues N to stop him. The hero encounters two lovely ladies, Concordia and Anthea, in the castle, who tells him more about N's upbringing (for our sakes, I believe the male protagonist fits more in this story than the female, so I will refer to the hero as male).

"I am Anthea... Trainer. Before you go to confront my lord N, please take a moment to rest."

"Ah, good. Both you and your Pokémon have recovered energy... Trainers battle to practice their skills and to grow in experience, but never to hurt their Pokémon. My lord N has realized this, deep down in his heart... but he has spent too much painful time here in this Castle to admit it..."

~ Anthea

"I am Concordia. I give peace and comfort to N. N has been separated from people since he was young. He was brought up with Pokémon... Pokémon that were betrayed, mistreated and hurt by bad people. Ghetsis deliberately brought only those poor Pokémon closer to N. N was touched by their plight, and started pursuing the truth, thinking only of Pokémon. N's heart is pure and innocent. But there is nothing more beautiful and terrifying than innocence."

~ Concordia

Hmm, what could Ghetsis be up to? Anyhow, the protagonist catches up to N, and sadly, with no dragon of his own. N summons his dragon to fight the hero, and is rather disappointed that the hero is NOT the one. Or is he? The hero's stone lights up and suddenly the opposite dragon does return from obscurity, after all these years. N gives the hero a chance to catch the dragon. The hero gets his dragon on his side, and N, seeing how it is meaningless to have his Pokemon fight an injured party of N's, proceeds to heal the hero's party, and soon, the battle that determines the fate of this world's Pokemon commences. Somehow, the good guys always win, and of course, the hero triumphs over N.

N is horrified but Ghetsis, that old geezer, comes along and calls his own son a fool, showing that N's cause was pure but had no idea about the shadows behind him. Ghetsis wanted this whole Team Plasma charade not because he sympathised with N, but because he wanted EVERY Pokemon for himself! Plot twist! With no room for breathers, this jerk decides to fight the hero, and of course, he loses and Alder and Cheren arrests this crazy guy. Wow that was annoying. But of course, the dragon did see N's intentions and chose him for a reason. N's ideas of creating a separate world was not because he wanted harm, but because he thought it would be the best without realising there were Pokemon who did indeed love their trainers. N realises this and flies off with his dragon, never to be seen again, but wishes the hero good tidings before zooming off...

So who was N's dragon and the hero's dragon? Depends on your version of course! But I wonder how they will pull this off in the third version (if there should be). Anyhow, just one theory, but remember how Reshiram fought for truth while Zekrom fought for ideals? Which Pokemon seems more fit for which side? In my opinion, it seems N is more fit for using Zekrom, only because his ideas are "ideals", to have a perfect world for only Pokemon and one for humans, so none would hurt each other. The protagonist would naturally use Reshiram to fight for what is true, what is right, that while there are Pokemon who are abused by their trainers, there are also many who will lose their source of happiness and mutual relationships if this new world comes into fruition. To me, it just seems more logical if it were that way, but either way works apparently... no clue how, but that's what two versions are for.

031The Kyurem We Know

http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/6697/spr5b646.png

Physically, what do we see? Kyurem looks rather incomplete. Its wings are not proportional to each other, looks awkward, and the general consensus is not in awe, but rather "this is the monster I came for"?

Kyurem has supposedly fallen down from an ice meteor into Giant Chasm. It is unclear where this meteor came from and how it originiated, but this is Kyurem's story.

031The Kyurem They Know

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/5087/lacunosatown.png

Lacunosa Town... Population: 16. Oh boy, that is frighteningly low for a town, isn't it? The townspeople are weird in this town, because they are always outside in daytime, but NOBODY is seen outside during nighttime, not a single soul, in fact! The old woman in Lacunosa Town tells us the reason this fortified city behaves like this is because of an old story that during nighttime, a giant monster would come and take the humans and Pokemon in the town and devour them! Well, that might explain the low population in this town (though every towns not named Castelia City or Nimbasa City suffer this syndrome, but let's not get there for now). The people nowadays do not believe in this story (pssh nonbelievers), but of course, the ritual still occurs. No one comes out at night time and they only come out during the day. Either they do this because it is a tradition to uphold, they want to scare the people outside of Lacunosa Town, or they know something. Either way, this is the Kyurem Lacunosa Town knows, and whatever it is, this beast certainly made a name for itself in this town, but does it really eat humans and Pokemon? We may never know...

031The Kyurem TrollGamefreak Knows

They're not telling us anything :/

----------------------------------------------------------

164SPECULATIONS START HERE

That's the whole point of this thread! Speculate away! But remember that NONE of the following speculations are by all means true and everything can turn out completely different from what is being stated.

031Kyurem's Untold Story

There is another rogue theory going about that Kyurem is the living corpse of the one dragon that Reshiram and Zekrom used to be. Though Reshiram and Zekrom are halves of each other, maybe there is a body like Ninjask's Shedinja lingering around. Could Kyurem be it? In fact, this might explain a few things.

The Ice Meteor that fell was Kyurem, the old body, itself. As Reshiram and Zekrom came out of its old body, the two dragons proceeded to side with one of the two brothers, as its old body fell down to the earth, sustaining catastrophic damage, which explains Kyurem's old, chipped, and rather incomplete look.
Kyurem may have possibly eaten people and Pokemon to sustain its aging body. After all, something needs food just to survive. And yet there are all sorts of Pokemon in Giant Chasm, so why would it not eat them? Perhaps Kyurem only ate certain things, maybe humans that decided to agitate it in a way (silly humans once again)? Maybe it protected the Pokemon living in the chasm and it is not the monster that people make it out to be (we all know humans are the masters and bait of propaganda)? Who knows?
Perhaps the reason behind Kyurem's lack of ice power is because it was not originally an Ice Dragon but just a dragon itself? Let's see... meteors have ice-like properties, so it may have gained its ice typing during its fall. It is frozen, and learns some ice moves, and yet it cannot use Frost Breath? Interesting, but this may explain the lack of a "Fusion Ice" or its lack of Level 100 move, but more on that later.

031Kyurem's Relationship With Reshiram and Zekrom

Reshiram's body is White, Zekrom's body is Black, but Kyurem's body is... look! It's Grey, the middle colour between Black and White. Could it symbol neutrality? Possibly. Could it also symbolise the next game to come? Of course it could! There's also very little doubt through their stats the three are related with each other. Let's take a look. I will bold out stuff that stand out and are similar. Underlined stuff are Kyurem's deviations from the other two.

http://img857.imageshack.us/img857/5655/643.png
Reshiram
Ability: TurboBlaze

HP: 100
Atk: 120
Def: 100
SpA: 150
SpD: 120
Spe: 90
BST: 680

Lv. 1 Fire Fang
Lv. 1 Dragon Rage
Lv. 8 Imprison
Lv. 15 Ancientpower
Lv. 22 Flamethrower
Lv. 29 Dragonbreath
Lv. 36 Slash
Lv. 43 Extrasensory
Lv. 50 Fusion Flare
Lv. 54 Dragon Pulse
Lv. 64 Imprison
Lv. 71 Crunch
Lv. 78 Fire Blast
Lv. 85 Outrage
Lv. 92 Hyper Voice
Lv. 100 Blue Flare

http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/4591/644p.png
Zekrom
Ability: Teravolt

HP: 100
Atk: 150
Def: 120
SpA: 120
SpD: 100
Spe: 90
BST: 680

Lv. 1 Thunder Fang
Lv. 1 Dragon Rage
Lv. 8 Imprison
Lv. 15 Ancientpower
Lv. 22 Thunderbolt
Lv. 29 Dragonbreath
Lv. 36 Slash
Lv. 43 Zen Headbutt
Lv. 50 Fusion Bolt
Lv. 54 Dragon Claw
Lv. 64 Imprison
Lv. 71 Crunch
Lv. 78 Thunder
Lv. 85 Outrage
Lv. 92 Hyper Voice
Lv. 100 Bolt Strike

http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/6697/spr5b646.png
Kyurem
Ability: Pressure

HP: 125
Atk: 130
Def: 90
SpA: 130
SpD: 90
Spe: 95
BST: 660

Lv. 1 Icy Wind
Lv. 1 Dragon Rage
Lv. 8 Imprison
Lv. 15 Ancientpower
Lv. 22 Ice Beam
Lv. 29 Dragonbreath
Lv. 36 Slash
Lv. 43 Scary Face
Lv. 50 Glaciate
Lv. 57 Dragon Pulse
Lv. 64 Imprison
Lv. 71 Endeavor
Lv. 78 Blizzard
Lv. 85 Outrage
Lv. 92 Hyper Voice

As you can see, Reshiram and Zekrom have a LOT in common, almost as if they are polar opposites of each other (and they are)! Kyurem, on the other hand, have a LOT of things in common, especially in its fundamental level up moves. However, there are aberrants, such as a lack of a powerful signature move, Level 100 attack MISSING, and learning its Dragon Pulse 3 levels later than Reshiram. It learns Scary Face as opposed to a Psychic move that Reshiram and Zekrom would learn. Speaking of a Psychic move, TM03, Psyshock, is found in Giant Chasm. It would have been cool if Kyurem learned that naturally as opposed to Scary Face, but unfortunately, it was not meant to be. Gamefreak even trolled here hard by giving it Endeavor as opposed to Crunch, making it even harder to catch. Way to go! Also, unlike Reshiram and Zekrom, Kyurem does not have its own version of Mold Breaker, but instead, Pressure.

The most notable difference between Kyurem and the other two is its Base Stat Total, which ended up at a total of 660. 660?! Am I looking at this correctly?! Yes, unfortunately, you are. This Ice Dragon was stripped of 20 base stats and ended up this way... but why? How could Gamefreak get away with making a supposed "trio master" with stat total LOWER than its subordinates? This is another reason we feel as if Gamefreak left this dragon "incomplete" and perhaps, may be a subject of future reorganization.

Another possibility is, Gamefreak is trolling on Ice Pokemon like Articuno once again, and decided this would be their latest incarnation of hating on Ice Pokemon.

031The Hidden Moves Factor

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/6635/gint.png"Pssh... those fail moves?"
~ Gin

By searching into the internal game data of Pokemon Black and White, some unused attacks have been found! And this may indeed be an explanation of Kyurem's "missing" Level 100 moves. Two very powerful Ice moves which may as well be associated with Kyurem have been discovered, one named Ice Burn, and the other named Freeze Shock. Both of them have a base power of 140! That's very powerful actually, BUT, there is a reason why our competitively apt moderator Gin calls them fail. They're just another rendition of SKY ATTACK. So Gamefreak decided to troll again huh? These attacks leave the user helpless for the first turn, and executed on the second. Now isn't that brilliant? And if these attacks were to be Kyurem's signature moves-to-be, what practicality would they have for battling anyways when it leaves it right open?

Ice Burn is a SPECIAL 140 Base attack with 90% accuracy that has 30% chance of burning the opponent. An Ice attack burning someone? Isn't that interesting? Freeze Shock is a PHYSICAL 140 Base attack with 90% accuracy that has 30% chance of paralysing the opponent. The charge-up turn can be overriden with an item called Power Herb for one turn, but is that really worth the item slot?

In the future, this could mean a few things.

1) Kyurem will receive both moves as Level 100 attacks, OR through a special event.
2) Kyurem will only be able to utilise this moveset in a Double / Triple / Rotation battle with a Reshiram or Zekrom by its side. It has will not appear in single battles.
3) Kyurem will NOT receive these attacks but instead Reshiram will take Ice Burn while Zekrom will take Freeze Shock.
4) Gamefreak is just trolling and left it in there to laugh at the people who think they found something but in reality it is nothing they will work on.

For me, it's either #1 or #4... the latter because of my skepticism of Gamefreak altogether.

031The God Stone Factor

So, remember how Zekrom was summoned by a Dark Stone while Reshiram was summoned by a Light Stone? There is a Grey Stone found in the game data as well, and it is called "God Stone". God Stone? Interesting, considering it is Grey, which automatically means it is related to Kyurem, or Gamefreak is just trolling. What if this item becomes a key item of usage later in a future game? Or what if like the Adamant, Lustrous, and Griesous Orbs of Gen IV, these items will be introduced as held items for the three dragons? Hopefully, this item may change Kyurem into a "more complete form" and abolish the charge-up requirements for all of its attack, but I will not hold my breath here, as that sounds way too good to be true. But hey, I can dream, can't I? And again, I will mention, Gamefreak may just be trolling.

031Kyurem in the Competitive Scene

Kyurem is also competitively bereft, as many of us who have played the Gen V metagame know. Gamefreak continues to either overestimate Ice types, or just continues to hate on them, much like Articuno from the past. But Kyurem, who was quite possibly made to be an internal trio master, was given stats bereft of the other uber monsters, and a horrid defensive typing. Its signature move, Glaciate, was first thought to be Icy Wind on steroids, as it was ORIGINALLY thought to lower the foe's speed by 2 stages. Unfortunately, we got trolled hard on THAT too, for instead of lowering by 2 stages, it only lowers by 1 stage, and retains its imperfect accuracy that Icy Wind has. The only difference is the mere extra 10 base power difference Glaciate has to offer. Whoo hoo.

Kyurem, does, however, have 5 extra stat points in speed than many of the other Pokemon in the uber tier, who are stuck at 90 base speed. That isn't all too bad. It has an equally high attack and Special Attack, which ties with both Mamoswine and Glaceon, respectively, and its defences are rather respectable at 125/90/90, so all hope is not lost.

Gin, our competitive battling expert, used Kyurem as an anti-lead Dragon.

http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/6697/spr5b646.png

Kyurem @ Lum Berry
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Speed
Nature: Timid
Ability: Pressure
- Draco Meteor
- Glaciate
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast

Well, this was when we thought Glaciate lowered speed by 2 stages. Unfortunately, Deoxys-S will still get its 2 layers of spikes because the speed reduction is not enough. Kyurem seems best used as a wallbreaker, because Kyurem has the offensive stats and two of the best STAB options this game has to offer.

http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/6697/spr5b646.png

Kyurem @ Life Orb
EVs: 40 Atk / 252 SpA / 216 Speed
Nature: Hasty / Naive
Ability: Pressure
- Draco Meteor
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast / Hidden Power [Fire]
- Dragon Claw / Outrage

The EVs are intended to outpace + natured base 90s. Maxing Special Attack just because most of its attacks are used from the special side of the spectrum. The rest are put into attack so Dragon Claw gets powered up. You are welcome to pump more into speed in case a scary Rayquaza comes in or to outpace other Kyurems. Also, if Hidden Power Fire is elected, run 36 Atk / 252 SpA / 220 Speed as Fire forces you to run imperfect speed. This seems to be the most popular set used in Smogon for Kyurem just to get the most out of this dragon in its state now, and it is hard to wall once it comes in, as it resists Kyogre's attacks.

Well, that's it? Seemingly. Kyurem seems to be lacking compared to the other legendaries that made it to the Uber tier. In fact, if I recall correctly, Kyurem is allowed in STANDARDS. Yes, STANDARDS. That's pretty bad for something that was designed to be an uber monster, and rather humiliating. Our hopes only go to Gamefreak here, and they either WILL patch things up, or, of course, trolling us to the max. But the question is WHAT will they do?

031The Giratina Factor

487 ---> 487-1

Remember Giratina? Unlike Kyurem, Giratina was a very able Pokemon to begin with even in Diamond and Pearl, but its story was largely unknown. Kyurem's case is begging for an alternative form, or gain something interesting in the next games. That would be an interesting plot to cover for Black and White SHOULD Kyurem be given that secondary form. Problem with this is, it will probably outclass the Kyurem we have almost entirely, or something will give. Maybe it will give away its attack powers just to boost its defences (defensive dragon/ice in ubers might be a bad idea!)... or perhaps given Multi-Scale as its ability or something! This is probably the most popular speculation of Kyurem held by Pokemon players so far; an alternative form. Something might just happen for our icy friend here, but then again, it can be another case of Gamefreak trolling on us Pokemon fans!

031The Arceus Factor

493

Or... they have a secret Pokemon stashed somewhere (649 is a weird Pokedex number to end it) and will be released in the 3rd version and happens to have pulled off his own creation and made Reshiram / Zekrom / Kyurem the way they were, and just happened to hate Ice Pokemon, much like Gamefreak. Then again, this theory is very implausible and is another way to explain Gamefreak has trolled on our Ice Dragon once more.

031The Musketeer Connection

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/6917/638.png http://img861.imageshack.us/img861/9294/639.png http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/4120/640k.png

This may be a huge of a stretch, but haven't you noticed how many the minor trios of each generation (that aren't the Regis) are somehow related to the major trio of each generations? The pixies of Sinnoh are related to Dialga / Palkia / Giratina and Arceus ultimately or how Raikou / Entei / Suicune were related to Ho-oh or something? Meh, it isn't always the case I know.

One day, Tbird and I were discussing about Kyurem, he randomly trolled me and said "Keldeo is related too". Tbird tends to troll, but this time, he didn't troll, because somehow, he brought up a good point. Remember how the musketeers were supposedly defending Pokemon who lost their habitats against human assaulters? What if... just what if that war was the same war the second generation noobs engaged in during the Reshiram / Zekrom conflict? What if that whole catastrophic clash of fire and lightning has indeed been caused by the humans and the Pokemon during that time as well? Why was it that the original clash of Reshiram and Zekrom did not result in the utter destruction of Unova? Can it be that the fire/lightning was assisted by the many participants of the war... or the war has taken place for a much longer time before the second generation noobs found out it was too late? The Musketeers are hostile against the humans because... for a long time they combated the humans who harmed Pokemon! Though this theory is a stretch, it is possible that the same war between Reshiram and Zekrom is the same conflict that the Musketeers engaged in. Maybe Kyurem ate the belligerent humans during that time? Whatever the case, this theory does not see much light, but I can see a possibility in it, and it is possibly a largely untold part of Unovan history. Or... it is Gamefreak trolling us again by allowing us to come up with such absurd conclusions.

031The Troll Factor

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/8642/mewtwoex.png"Back then, gamefreak wasn't ''think electric rodent''. Now they are lazy and whiteness the evolution to complete the recycle... Or something. Lazy drawers. Can't think of a similar to nincada evo..."
~ Mewtwo EX

You know... just pause and think for one moment that probably... just maybe, Gamefreak is leaving all these clues just to make us think something is happening, but in reality, they're nothing but stuff to keep us excited for the next release. It's possible. I won't say this possibility does not exist, but for our sakes and for this whole world's sakes, let's hope this is not the case. Of course, in THIS situation, Gamefreak IS definitely trolling.

031Closing Words

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/7934/kyurembytuooneo.jpg
Kyurem by Tuooneo

Well, that is all for this icy dragon for now. I've shared every parts of thoughts that I have come across of this frozen mysterious dragon. I would like to know everyone else's thoughts about Kyurem, and what they might possibly do in the upcoming Grey version. And by now we know Reshiram, Zekrom and Kyurem are related in some way or another, even if we do not know HOW. If they do not come up with a Grey version, we know who is trolling us!

NOW YOUR TURN! Please share your thoughts about this icy dragon :)

---------------------------------------

031Since The Release of Pokemon Black/White 2

386386-1386-2386-3

The Deoxys Factor?!

It is quite possible the new implementation of two different Kyurem forms might be the Deoxys treatment from Gen III, which is where Deoxys mainfested different forms depending on the version. Ruby/Sapphire had the normal Deoxys, Fire Red had the attack form Deoxys, Leaf Green had the defence form Deoxys, and Emerald had the speed form Deoxys. I admit I did not think of this before, but so far with the presentation of two Kyurems representing two different versions as opposed to a Grey version that we all speculated may only mean this is the way they are headed... or Gamefreak is trolling as usual.

Now we may know where Ice Burn and Freeze Shock may go to... and I suspect both forms specialise in different stats (Black Kyurem has better physical stats, White Kyurem has better special stats). Their typing and ability? Only time will tell, but some people speculate that Black Kyurem will sport an Ice/Electric typing while White Kyurem will sport an Ice/Fire typing. Personally, I don't buy that as I don't believe one can remove Kyurem's fundamental Dragon typing, but I'm not the one to talk. I was thinking more of Rotom's manifestation from Gen IV where it maintained its original typing while it changed forms (in Kyurem's case Dragon/Ice).

My personal speculation is a Dragon/Ice typed Kyurem with an ability that either boosts its Fire/Electric attacks to provide pseudo-STAB (depending on its form), an ability that hopefully removes charge up time (though they never added a new ability in-generation before), Levitate, or... troll us with the ubiquitous yet boring ability Pressure that the disfigured Kyurem has. The Black Kyurem will gain Electric attacks while White Kyurem will gain Fire attacks.

Just for reference, Ice/Electric types have weaknesses to Ground, Fire, Rock, Fighting and resist Ice, Electric, and Flying attacks. Ice/Fire types have a quadruple weakness to Rock (stupid Stealth Rocks), normal weakness to Fighting, Ground, Water and quadruple resist Ice, and normally resist Grass and Bug.

http://pokebeach.com/news/0212/pokemon-black-white-2.jpg

The two new Kyurems

Personally, I dislike the new forms in terms of aesthetics. I have no idea how they will function competitively nor do I know what promises they hold for the plot, but they are literally fusions of Reshiram/Zekrom and Kyurem. I feel they could have done better.

KyoMcFizzle

Mar 27th, 2011, 12:16 AM

I'm putting my money on the Giratina factor at this point. The burn and shock moves I'm also putting on Kyurem. Lord knows that Kyurem needs the upgrade. Besides, the way I see it, they'll probably use Kyurem and the god stone as a means of quelling the battle between the two dragons as far as story goes. I'll type more when I'm not tired.

Alright. Time for my coherent two bits on this matter:

As far as story goes, I'm going to go out on a limb and try and tie as much of the speculation together as I'm able. Taking into consideration the idea that the Musketeer Pokemon tie in to this story in some way, let's consider this:
Amidst the battle of the two ignorant sons of the original dragon users, Cobalion, Terrakion, and Virizion use their abilities to rescue dozens of Pokemon. In their attempt to try and save as many Pokemon as they can, the three Pokemon use their powers to revive the fallen shell that was once the mighty dragon that Reshiram and Zekrom split from. Assuming that the timeline goes:

-The one Dragon
-The one Dragon splits/Fall of the "Meteor" that created Giant Chasm
-Second Generation Battle
-The Great Fire that Cobalion, Virizion, and Terrakion are involved in

We can then assume that, upon reviving the fallen shell of the great dragon, Reshiram and Zekrom were in turn brought to their senses by the revival of the shell's resurrection (Linked minds perhaps since the two beasts originated from the shell?). After disappearing, Kyurem then went to devour the humans responsible for the destruction of the Unova region. Again, I know this is rough, but my mind isn't exactly functioning well enough to put together a more.... Fluid storyline. I'll probably revise this or something at some point or another. I'm going to hope that Kyurem gets a form change that better resembles the True Dragon's once complete form, but the drawback is that it doesn't have quite as much power. I'll bet that it'll exceed or rival Reshiram and Zekrom's base stats in this form, but will be a bit more on the defensive sides with decent attack stats (as was previously mentioned). Once can hope.

Toffeuy

Mar 27th, 2011, 12:40 AM

KyoMcFizzle

Mar 27th, 2011, 12:43 AM

Probably not true but that first idea that came to mind was that during the separation of Reshiram and Zekrom, a large excess of energy was released. This energy caused a mutation in a nearby pokemon (Vanilite?) which may explain its incomplete appearances. But personally, I never thought that any strong pokemon looked complete... (Mewtwo Ex will disagree with this)

I'm.... Kinda borderline with this one. I agree with the release of energy sort of thing because that makes a bit of sense, but the mutation kinda makes me go, "Wait what?" Still, who am I to dismiss something in a speculation thread? As for the looking complete thing, I think it's more so the lack of symmetry on this Pokemon that throws people off.

Toffeuy

Mar 27th, 2011, 01:56 AM

I'm.... Kinda borderline with this one. I agree with the release of energy sort of thing because that makes a bit of sense, but the mutation kinda makes me go, "Wait what?" Still, who am I to dismiss something in a speculation thread? As for the looking complete thing, I think it's more so the lack of symmetry on this Pokemon that throws people off.

Well I was thinking to myself, 'A pokemon comes out of nowhere solely because of the released energy?' Just doesn't work...

And btw wraith, typo:

Kyurem
Ability: Pressure

HP: 125
Atk: 130
Def: 90
SpA: 130
SpD: 90
Spe: 90
BST: 660

EDIT: I left out the meteor bit:
Lets just say the ice triggered the energy to create an ice-type pokemon and since the source of the energy is from a dragon, it also ended up as a dragon-type. Okay, i'm giving up on the mutation.

aquaguy34

Mar 27th, 2011, 03:25 AM

Probably not true but that first idea that came to mind was that during the separation of Reshiram and Zekrom, a large excess of energy was released. This energy caused a mutation in a nearby pokemon (Vanilite?) which may explain its incomplete appearances. But personally, I never thought that any strong pokemon looked complete... (Mewtwo Ex will disagree with this)

So your telling me that if I take ice cream and use the excess energy ,i will get a giant frozen dragon with an incomplete body and dances like a chicken (sounds like robot chicken anyone?) along with the fact it has limbs? (I just had to point out the obvious contradictions)

Toffeuy

Mar 27th, 2011, 04:04 AM

So your telling me that if I take ice cream and use the excess energy ,i will get a giant frozen dragon with an incomplete body and dances like a chicken (sounds like robot chicken anyone?) along with the fact it has limbs? (I just had to point out the obvious contradictions)
Maybe, O_O scientists don't analyse fictional elements. This is pokemon we're talking about here not real life. If the energy is derived from a pokemon, then maybe the pokemon's life source is transferred into the ice cream :)

aquaguy34

Mar 27th, 2011, 04:39 AM

We all know that nintendo logic (as chuggaconroy calls it when a nintendo game makes a contradiction to real world logic) is very weird and unpredictable, but I don't think nintendo is THAT nuts.

Pingouin7

Mar 27th, 2011, 11:26 AM

Anyone remember what happened in Chargestone Cave?

Mainly what N told us at the very end.

Many different values mix together, and the world becomes gray... That is unforgivable!
I will separate Pokémon and people, and black and white will be clearly distinct!

I'm not sure if that could be of use, but hey.

Doc

Mar 27th, 2011, 01:01 PM

I believe that kyurem is the broken remains of the 1 dragon pokemon that reshiram and zekrom once were. I thought that perhaps he will only be capable of learning one of those hidden moves at a time and then with this move, and a special hold item, his type would change accordingly, if he knows ice burn he becomes dragon/fire and if he knows freeze shock he becomes dragon/electric, maybe not exactly like that but i think perhaps he will somehow have the ability to be all three type combos (dragon/ice, dragon/fire, dragon/electirc), but after the split, reshiram came off with his fire powers, zekrom came off with his electirc powers and kyurem crashed down becoming a weak shadow of his former self, losing his control of fire and electric and therefor losing his ice burn and freeze shock moves, and now he hides away in that cave waiting for a way to regain his former power and kick reshiram and zekrom's butts into next week.

or something like that.....

wraith89

Mar 27th, 2011, 04:46 PM

Gin

Mar 27th, 2011, 05:21 PM

As I've said earlier, I think they'll be putting in a form change or something. Kyurem is too ugly as of now. Anyone think that 650 could be a return of the 'one dragon'? Also, I have a feeling that pressure will be replaced with something that takes away charge up time. It's not like they'll give it Ice Mold breaker, as it'd be absolutely useless.

wraith89

Mar 27th, 2011, 05:24 PM

So far, there is no ability that gets rid of Charge up time, but they may come up with one by that time? I haven't seen new abilities added internally within a generation yet, but hey, they changed HYPNOSIS's accuracy within a Generation as well, so who knows? I'm just assuming an item like Griesous Orb will be made to give that effect of getting rid of charge time.

Not that Pressure is a bad ability, mind you, but it's just boring as most Uber monsters just have it. I'm betting on a form change as well, but how they will execute it, we don't know.

Gin

Mar 27th, 2011, 05:31 PM

The more I look at Kyurem, the more parallels I see with Giratina. I'm certain now that something will be done. Actually, as both Reshiram and Zekrom are ground weak, they may even add on levitate and make the new orb fix its moves?

wraith89

Mar 27th, 2011, 05:45 PM

LEVITATE. Just like Origin Forme Giratina. If that happens, at least Kyurem will have equal amounts of resistance/immunities as weaknesses (the only other Ice type I can think of right now that has that property is Froslass). What if it also gains the ability to use Fire and Electric moves? I know it sounds ridiculous, but that would be pretty cool.

Gin

Mar 27th, 2011, 05:59 PM

What's the concept kyuurem is supposed to represent? That could help enlighten us on what will happen next.

wraith89

Mar 27th, 2011, 06:01 PM

Apparently "neutrality" or the absence of energy (represented by Ice). Reshiram and Zekrom are two extremes, one representing Yin and the other Yang, both positive energies of some kind (Fire and Lightning). Also notice their "turbine-esque" tails. Kyurem shares that trait with the other two as well (though it resembles a plug more).

Reshiram's White, Zekrom's Black, Kyurem's Grey. Now you tell me what that's supposed to be :S

aquaguy34

Mar 27th, 2011, 07:24 PM

Remember guys Kyurem is Wuji (the borderline between yin and yang) which means "neither" and in some cases "both" so that would somewhat explain Kyurem's incompleteness.

JellyRulerZ

Mar 27th, 2011, 09:02 PM

I agree with the idea of Kyurem being the empty shell of the original dragon, but i have an idea on how it got its icy powers. So both zekrom and reshiram are weak to ground, so maybe the original dragon was ground type, but froze when its's only source of heat (fire and lighting) left. so if/when kyurem is becomes whole, it's alternate form might be ground and dragon. just an idea

KyoMcFizzle

Mar 27th, 2011, 10:34 PM

Wow, there is a lot of interesting stuff going on here. If there is another form, I just hope it retains its Ice typing... only because if it does not, Gamefreak has succeeded in making Ice type look inferior once again. D:<
Whatever the case, we will know in the next game (should it come). That quote from N Pingouin stated somewhat interests me and might correlate to the central plot of a Grey version.

Ewww typo. Thanks Toff, that would have been a grave error on my part...
And Toff, there are no Vanillites near Giant Chasm :/

Also, the notion of Kyurem's incompleteness is indeed derived from its lack of symmetry. However, it is also from its battling prowess too, as mentioned, as it lacks 20 base stats from being even equal to Reshiram and Zekrom and is aberrant in the moves it learns, which makes you wonder why Gamefreak would let their designers get away with a "trio master" in this ridiculous form? It looks like it is begging for a simple upgrade of some sorts. This isn't foreign as upgrades were done during Gen IV to some Pokemon like Giratina and Rotom (though the former is mostly a form change rather than an upgrade), but perhaps they are trying a different approach this time?

I think they ran out of time, threw some random thing in, called it the Ice Dragon, and said "Hey just wait until Grey version! We'll make something cool out of this guy! We promise!"

*stares at Farfetch'd, Delibird, Luvdisc, and a whole slew of other Pokemon who were on the "upgrades wanted" waiting list*

"We'll get to them too! Really!"

First off, I'm appalled by the lack of, oh, I don't know.... DUNSPARCE... On your list. >:C Also, the whole quote from N thing is somewhat self explained. Let's think back for a moment on the whole topic of the Original Dragon. Several different Ideals were mixed together during the era of this Pokemon. One brother sought this world of ideals, while the other sought the Truth. Perhaps this quote is merely meant as a reference to the creation of Reshiram and Zekrom. The separation of Truth and Ideals in to separate entities. The separation of Grey in to Black and White. Just a thought.

On the topic of the moves Freeze Burn and Ice Shock (Or whatever), I'm liking the idea of eliminating the Charge Up time on these moves. Perhaps there will be an interesting turn of events here. Here's my hypothesis:

-Kyurem receives a Form Change of some kind and a new ability that eliminates charge up time; a permanent Red Herb ability, if you will. As such, his signature moves are then left open to be Freeze Burn and Ice Shock (Or whatever).
-Reshiram and Zekrom both receive their respective moves Freeze Burn and Ice Shock. HOWEVER, since these two do NOT have the aforementioned ability that reduces charge time, these moves are then made less effective on both dragons due to their only being HALF of the original dragon each. This could tie in on some level to Kyurem resembling and being the physical majority of the original dragon or some random story plot twist thing or whatever. Don't ask me.
-Form Change allows Kyurem to take on a more even form that may/may not resemble the original dragon OR both Reshiram and Zekrom.

On the topic of being to use Fire/Electric type moves, I wouldn't bet against it. If Kyurem really is a shell of the original dragon, then it's not too Farfetch'd (OH LOOK. LOOK. A PUN. A POKEMON PUN. AHAHAHAHAHA. I'M SO WITTY.) to assume that Kyurem would be able to learn lesser electric and fire type moves, such as Charge Beam or Incinerate.

Regarding the presence of neutrality with Kyurem, it makes a great deal of sense. Though I don't know how to expand upon the idea right now. HOORAY.

And lastly, ground dragon seems kinda.... I dunno. It almost feels way off, given the concept of Kyurem. I like the idea of Kyurem becoming an Ice type when its source of heat left, but at the same time why would it be ground type? Why not be something else that is a medium between Fire and Lightning? Again though, given the types in Pokemon, finding a Medium between the two is kinda hard. Perhaps the one dragon was just straight dragon type? Most Dragon types (KEY WORD: MOST) are capable of learning fire and electric type moves. Hydreigon, Druddigon, Palkia... Who said the original Dragon needed any other type? :D

And that's my two bits for now.

JellyRulerZ

Mar 27th, 2011, 11:00 PM

good point on that, kyo. and you know now that i think about it ground really doesnt make much sense. Well i guess we'll find out, if gamefreak is nice enough.

KyoMcFizzle

Mar 27th, 2011, 11:22 PM

good point on that, kyo. and you know now that i think about it ground really doesnt make much sense. Well i guess we'll find out, if gamefreak is nice enough.

Talked with a few people about the Pokemon Grey version issue that everyone is buzzing about. People are saying it would be advantageous for Nintendo if they released Grey on the 3DS, whereas everyone else is crying and whining that it needs to stay on the DS until this generation comes to a close. Since this is somewhat related, here's my educated prediction:

Pokemon Grey will be released for the DS, but there will be special 3DS Grey content released through the AR Cards method that the 3DS is currently implementing. Why? Let's discuss:

If Grey were to be released on the 3DS, it would require a complete system overhaul. You'd have to rewrite the entire game and really kick everything up a couple dozen notches in order to implement the 3D in to the game. Not only that, you'd be writing off dozens of fans and a lot of profit. Yes, having a Pokemon title on the 3DS would be a great boost to sales, especially in anticipation of trying to outself the NGP, but I'm hoping (And betting) that Nintendo will keep Grey on the DS as a final means to keep things in order.

wraith89

Mar 27th, 2011, 11:35 PM

First off, I'm appalled by the lack of, oh, I don't know.... DUNSPARCE... On your list. >:C Also, the whole quote from N thing is somewhat self explained. Let's think back for a moment on the whole topic of the Original Dragon. Several different Ideals were mixed together during the era of this Pokemon. One brother sought this world of ideals, while the other sought the Truth. Perhaps this quote is merely meant as a reference to the creation of Reshiram and Zekrom. The separation of Truth and Ideals in to separate entities. The separation of Grey in to Black and White. Just a thought.

On the topic of the moves Freeze Burn and Ice Shock (Or whatever), I'm liking the idea of eliminating the Charge Up time on these moves. Perhaps there will be an interesting turn of events here. Here's my hypothesis:

-Kyurem receives a Form Change of some kind and a new ability that eliminates charge up time; a permanent Red Herb ability, if you will. As such, his signature moves are then left open to be Freeze Burn and Ice Shock (Or whatever).
-Reshiram and Zekrom both receive their respective moves Freeze Burn and Ice Shock. HOWEVER, since these two do NOT have the aforementioned ability that reduces charge time, these moves are then made less effective on both dragons due to their only being HALF of the original dragon each. This could tie in on some level to Kyurem resembling and being the physical majority of the original dragon or some random story plot twist thing or whatever. Don't ask me.
-Form Change allows Kyurem to take on a more even form that may/may not resemble the original dragon OR both Reshiram and Zekrom.

On the topic of being to use Fire/Electric type moves, I wouldn't bet against it. If Kyurem really is a shell of the original dragon, then it's not too Farfetch'd (OH LOOK. LOOK. A PUN. A POKEMON PUN. AHAHAHAHAHA. I'M SO WITTY.) to assume that Kyurem would be able to learn lesser electric and fire type moves, such as Charge Beam or Incinerate.

Regarding the presence of neutrality with Kyurem, it makes a great deal of sense. Though I don't know how to expand upon the idea right now. HOORAY.

And lastly, ground dragon seems kinda.... I dunno. It almost feels way off, given the concept of Kyurem. I like the idea of Kyurem becoming an Ice type when its source of heat left, but at the same time why would it be ground type? Why not be something else that is a medium between Fire and Lightning? Again though, given the types in Pokemon, finding a Medium between the two is kinda hard. Perhaps the one dragon was just straight dragon type? Most Dragon types (KEY WORD: MOST) are capable of learning fire and electric type moves. Hydreigon, Druddigon, Palkia... Who said the original Dragon needed any other type? :D

And that's my two bits for now.

I didn't mention Stunfisk either, did I? But oh well, it's one of those new guys, so...

I would really like it if the charge was eliminated as well somehow. Then that would make the whole "charge up" effect a useless concept to begin with. Perhaps then, it was implemented only because Metronome *might* select those moves, or they may be available to Reshiram or Zekrom in the future, though they lack STAB and most possibly, require charge up, like you are saying. That sounds like a possibility indeed.

As for the Fire/Electric moves available on dragons, yeah, many dragons are able to utilise those two moves in particular. However, they tend to mess up these legendaries by giving them "specific" moves that fit their elements. I don't like how they do that with legendaries most of the time; an Ice legend is almost always stuck with just Ice moves, Lightning legends with mostly electric moves, and Fire legends with mostly Fire moves. That's how it usually ends up for the minor legendaries at least. I did state before that perhaps the original dragon was just "dragon", but I wouldn't want them to undermine the cool Ice type it has...but knowing Gamefreak... they PROBABLY WILL D:<

Ground/Dragon? Not another Garchomp/Flygon!

Gin

Mar 27th, 2011, 11:36 PM

wraith89

Mar 27th, 2011, 11:43 PM

To 'fix' Kyurem, they need to first do the following:
A)Fix its stats
B)Fix its movepool
C)Give it flavor or make it standout
D)fix its appearance
I also don't like its typing, but I don't see how they'll get away with fixing that.

Quoted For Truth

I just like its Ice typing because I'm just too much of an Ice type fan and it does provide a good offensive dual STAB. Defensively, yeah, not happening, but it hurts a lot.

Keep in mind the fact that Kyurem IS lacking flavour is the very reason it is standing out.

RoverTX

Mar 28th, 2011, 10:04 PM

This might seem like a weird question but when it comes to the ability Solorbeam is the fact that the charge step is skipped when its sunny programed into the move itself or is it the weather condition? If it is the later might these moves fire off on the first turn with hail and the reason this hasn't been found out yet is that people are looking in the wrong place? Also, I hope they don't add another form that just seems lazy and makes it so you can't even battle friends with the new forms since the older version don't have the info.....

Edit: it also isn't beat up, if you look at it from behind it seems to actually be symmetrical and intact, its just the really really bad head on sprite..

Gin

Mar 28th, 2011, 11:27 PM

I don't actually understand above post. Slightly on topic, Kyurem apparently froze itself. Could this mean it is the dumbest pokemon since Slowbro?

Adiana

Mar 29th, 2011, 01:39 AM

According to the pokedex entry on the Black version, it generates its "freezing energy" inside its body, but the energy leaks out (how, I've no idea). So, it became frozen from excessive energy production. Or something.

...I really don't know. It sounded better in my head.

(Though maybe the energy leaks out due to the fact that it is an incomplete being/the shell of the original dragon?)

KyoMcFizzle

Mar 29th, 2011, 01:44 AM

It's a weather condition. When it's sunny, Solar Beam skips the charge phase and can be used in rapid succession. Weather effects also effect certain moves like so:

In Hail:
All non-Ice type Pokémon are damaged each turn
Bizzard's accuracy is increased to 100%, being able to break through Protect & Detect 25% of the time
Synthesis. Morning Sun & Moonlight recover 25% of user's HP
Pokémon with the Ice Body Ability have 1/16th of their max HP recovered each turn
Pokémon with the Snow Cloak Ability have their evasion boosted by 20%. Outside battle in 216 & 217, if head of the party, the wild encounter rate is decreased by 50%
Castform transforms into a Ice type Pokémon
The attack Weather Ball's Power doubles and becomes Ice Type

In Rain:
Water Type move's Base Power is increased by 50%
Fire Type move's Base Power is decreased by 50%
Solar Beam requires two turns of charge
Thunder's accuracy is increased to 100%, being able to break through Protect & Detect 25% of the time
Gale's accuracy is increased to 100%, being able to break through Protect & Detect 25% of the time
Synthesis. Morning Sun & Moonlight recover 25% of user's HP
Pokémon with the Dry Skin Ability recovers HP every turn and 1/4 its HP when hit by a Water Attack
Pokémon with the Hydration Ability are cured from status afflictions whenever it rains
Pokémon with the Rain Dish Ability have 1/16th of their max HP recovered each turn
Pokémon with the Swift Swim Ability have their Speed raised
Castform transforms into a Water type Pokémon
The attack Weather Ball's Power doubles and becomes Water Type

In Sunny:
Fire Type move's Base Power is increased by 50%
Water Type move's Base Power is decreased by 50%
Solar Beam does not require charging
Thunder's accuracy is reduced to 50%
Gale's accuracy is reduced to 50%
Synthesis. Morning Sun & Moonlight recover 100% of user's HP
Pokémon with the Chlorophyll Ability have their Speed raised
Pokémon with the Dry Skin Ability received double damage from Fire attacks and loses HP each turn
Cherrim's Flower Gift Ability increases it's Attack & Special Attack and changes it's form
Pokémon with the Leaf Guard Ability are protected from status afflictions
Pokémon with the Solar Power Ability have their Special Attack raised but HP lowered
Castform transforms into a Fire type Pokémon
The attack Weather Ball's Power doubles and becomes Fire Type

In Sand Storm:
All non-Rock, Ground or Steel type Pokémon are damaged each turn
Rock type Pokémon's Special Defense is increased by 50%
Solar Beam power is reduced
Thunder's accuracy is reduced to 50%
Synthesis. Morning Sun & Moonlight recover 25% of user's HP
Pokémon with the Sand Veil Ability have their evasion boosted by 20%. Outside battle in 111 & 228, if head of the party, the wild encounter rate is decreased by 50%
Pokémon with the Sand Strength Ability have their Ground, Steel & Rock move strength increased by one stage
The Weather Ball attack's Power doubles and becomes Rock Type

EDIT: I'm so bad. Look at me. I should be doing homework and instead I'm here talking about Pokemon. Bad me. *wristslap*

RoverTX

Mar 30th, 2011, 09:44 PM

Sorry I should have been clearer that I was asking a technical question. What I was trying to say is basically this. There is something with in the programing for the move Solarbeam or in the programing for sunny weather that causes the charge stepped for Solarbeam to be skipped. I don't' know how the programing goes but I have in my head that it is something like one of these two possibilities.

Within solarbeam's code

If SunnyWeather then
Skip Charge Step And Fire Away

or within SunnyWeather's code

If Solarbeam is Used
Skip Charge Step and Fire Away

If it is the later could hail have a similar effect on them(ie Kyurem's two Ice Charge up moves) , as sunny weather does to solarbeam, thus making them not completely worthless, and the reason people aren't seeing this is that they are looking inside the moves for the trigger(ie a trigger to skip the charge phase) and not inside the weather effect. Does that make since, I am not asking about what weather does, I am asking about the structure of the programing itself with regards to solarbeam and similar moves.

IN SHORT: I have been playing pokemon from Blue and Red I understand the game, I am asking about the actually code itself and where different things might be triggered with in it.

Crappy Java Code to show what I mean, I know Pokemon isn't programed in Java and this code is horrible its just to prove a point.

public class Solarbeam implements Move{
int countDown = 1;
....
....
public int use(pokemon target, pokemon user){
if(getWeather().equals("Sunny"))
countDown = 0;
.......
if(countDown == 0)
damage(target, 120, Grass, user);
}
}

or is it something like

public class Sunny implements Weather{
....
....
public int check(pokemon target, pokemon user, move targetMove, move userMove){
....
....
if(userMove.isInstanceOf(SolarBeam))
userMove.lowerCountDown(0);
userMove.Use(w/e);
}
}

wraith89

Mar 30th, 2011, 09:53 PM

Solarbeam does have that effect, but the two hidden moves apparently have no such effect. It is like Sky Attack; there is no way to bypass the charge turn aside from a one-time use Power Herb.

Also regarding Kyurem...

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/636/brokenwing.png

If Kyurem's non symmetry is not apparent now, I don't know what is. Broken wing... it fell on its right side :/

RoverTX

Mar 30th, 2011, 10:11 PM

I saw that too when I captured it but when you look at it from behind it looks symmetrical to me. I think they just really screwed up on its drawing.

Heres what I mean from his back side
http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/e/ea/Spr_b_5b_646.png

That or maybe in that picture his wing is supposed to be flapping down. I don't know it just seems lazy to me, and with confirmation that the two Charge Moves aren't effected by hail just confirms, for me, that he stinks of laziness....

wraith89

Mar 30th, 2011, 10:18 PM

Yeah I saw his backsprite too... but I believe the intention was to make him non-symmetrical. Meteor crashing, well, it is going to make a fracture somewhere. Kyurem looks way too damaged and it probably kept itself frozen to conserve its energy or something? I don't know... there's a reasoning behind it.

They couldn't have screwed up its drawing. It is non symmetrical in its front sprite, official artwork, and overworld. The aberrant is the back sprite as you posted, but even that is a little obscure because the other wing's size is rather covered by its tail. They had no problems making other overworlds symmetrical... why would Kyurem be any different?

Oh, and woot, just caught Kyurem. It took 13 Dusk Balls while it fainted my Unfezant and Vanilluxe and almost fainted Jellicent and Chandelure.

Theodore Daconus

Mar 30th, 2011, 10:22 PM

wraith89

Mar 30th, 2011, 10:23 PM

I don't care how they fix Kyurem, as long as he stays a Dragon/Ice type. That and I have never heard of a pokemon changing type unless it was a trait of that pokemon from the very beginning. A form change would be good yes... but a type would not be.
That is my two cents.

Shaymin changed types when it changed forms (although not its primary type), and Rotom changed its secondary Ghost typing during Gen V. And yes, I would definitely want Kyurem to stay Dragon/Ice. Without that Ice typing, I would lose all meaning to even use Kyurem.

RoverTX

Mar 30th, 2011, 10:39 PM

If it matters at all I hacked Ice burn onto my Kyurem, made it hail and to no effect now trying double battle with the corresponding legendary too see if that matters at all.... also going to try using it with the 130 power moves and the Fusion moves just to test out all possibilities.

Edit 1: Neither Bolt Strike or Blue Flare had any effect trying with fusion, though this just seems futile.....

Edit 2: Fusion moves didn't work either, I guess they really are worthless.... maybe there not in game because they knew they where so terrible....

Theodore Daconus

Mar 30th, 2011, 10:41 PM

Shaymin changed types when it changed forms (although not its primary type), and Rotom changed its secondary Ghost typing during Gen V. And yes, I would definitely want Kyurem to stay Dragon/Ice. Without that Ice typing, I would lose all meaning to even use Kyurem.

As I said, unless it was a trait it already had, Shaymin and Rotom count. Though I do see we agree on the other part. :)

RoverTX

Mar 31st, 2011, 12:26 AM

I still don't get why they made the moves so terrible when they gave V-create to Victini.....

180 Base Power (100% acc with his ability) and only Speed Def and SPDef down compared too 140 and 30% burn/para 90% acc with two turn set up..... There has to be something.......

wraith89

Mar 31st, 2011, 12:36 AM

Speed reduction is almost ALWAYS bad... but yeah, 180 base power is overkill pretty much. With STAB, that is 270, and resisted, that does 135 already. We are speculating a transformation item, akin to Giratina's, but it cancels out the charge effect for the holder (Kyurem). Let's just hope it works that way. Unfortunately, something in my Gamefreak skeptical heart tells me this will go very wrong...

aquaguy34

Mar 31st, 2011, 07:44 PM

well gamefreak better not troll us like they usually do

kevin19980609

Mar 31st, 2011, 11:17 PM

Maybe I'm trying too hard to notice details, but Doesn't Arceus also have a yellow mark on its head?

KyoMcFizzle

Apr 1st, 2011, 08:30 PM

wraith89

Apr 1st, 2011, 08:38 PM

It fell down? DERP.

"HELP! I'VE FALLEN AND I CAN'T GET UP! D:"

Also: To the latest post, YOU'RE THINKING TOO HARD THIS IS SPECULATION STOP EET >:C I kid. I kid.

Hey what do Meteors do again? Fly? :bidoof:

KyoMcFizzle

Apr 1st, 2011, 08:40 PM

Hey what do Meteors do again? Fly? :bidoof:

Hey, why does wraith double post? :bidoof: I was thinking more along the lines of he literally fell over on his side since he's a retarded chicken dragon. :P

wraith89

Apr 1st, 2011, 08:44 PM

Hey, why does wraith double post? :bidoof: I was thinking more along the lines of he literally fell over on his side since he's a retarded chicken dragon. :P

I double post all the time. What are you saying? :bidoof:
And he's not a retarded chicken dragon :/
That's what a Tbird is.

</offtopic>

Moving along. Any other speculations of Kyurem? I want a Fusion Ice or something of that sort.

KyoMcFizzle

Apr 1st, 2011, 08:56 PM

I double post all the time. What are you saying? :bidoof:
And he's not a retarded chicken dragon :/
That's what a Tbird is.

</offtopic>

Moving along. Any other speculations of Kyurem? I want a Fusion Ice or something of that sort.
I'm not betting on a Fusion Ice, but something else entirely. I mean, Fusion Bolt and Fusion Flare are powered up by one another.
Fusion Ice would be a little... I dunno. Kinda off if we guessed Kyurem being just a shell correctly. MY guess is he'll get some kind of ultima-esque move similar to Judgment, but in the form of Ice (Or something to that general effect) with a slight powerdown to what it WOULD have been had Kyurem been the complete Dragon.

wraith89

Apr 1st, 2011, 08:59 PM

I'm not betting on a Fusion Ice, but something else entirely. I mean, Fusion Bolt and Fusion Flare are powered up by one another.
Fusion Ice would be a little... I dunno. Kinda off if we guessed Kyurem being just a shell correctly. MY guess is he'll get some kind of ultima-esque move similar to Judgment, but in the form of Ice (Or something to that general effect) with a slight powerdown to what it WOULD have been had Kyurem been the complete Dragon.

Yeah, I guess so. Though, I was thinking more of an 100 BP/100% accurate Ice move. I mean, I know Bolt and Flare are positive energies so having an Ice move of the Fusion family would be weird because Ice is seen as a negative energy of some sort. I only said it because Glaciate feels... lacking. I mean, a -2 speed drop would have been something, but it's only an Icy Wind with a slight vitamin boost. But I suppose Cold Burn and Freeze Shock is enough, and HOPEFULLY, without the charge up effects.

Tbird

Apr 1st, 2011, 09:05 PM

And he's not a retarded chicken dragon :/
That's what a Tbird is.

</offtopic>

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/9567/foghornx.jpg

Well I say, I say I resent that remark!

I haven't played far enough into the game to know exactly what the story is wuth Kyurem, I may aswell read the spoilers, I doubt I'll ever get around to finishing BW anyway. Though, I hazard a guess it might be the Reshiram/Zakrom "shedinja" I may be completely off, but that's my uneducated 2c.

KyoMcFizzle

Apr 1st, 2011, 09:06 PM

Yeah, I guess so. Though, I was thinking more of an 100 BP/100% accurate Ice move. I mean, I know Bolt and Flare are positive energies so having an Ice move of the Fusion family would be weird because Ice is seen as a negative energy of some sort. I only said it because Glaciate feels... lacking. I mean, a -2 speed drop would have been something, but it's only an Icy Wind with a slight vitamin boost. But I suppose Cold Burn and Freeze Shock is enough, and HOPEFULLY, without the charge up effects.

That's where I'd put my money. It's the most logical, given they're both ice type moves and they share attributes of Reshiram and Zekrom's types. I mean, if the moves were something like the way Shadow Force worked, they'd be superb. :/

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/9567/foghornx.jpg

Well I say, I say I resent that remark!

I haven't played far enough into the game to know exactly what the story is wuth Kyurem, I may aswell read the spoilers, I doubt I'll ever get around to finishing BW anyway. Though, I hazard a guess it might be the Reshiram/Zakrom "shedinja" I may be completely off, but that's my uneducated 2c.

Hello there Stroke-Chicken. :3

Mjblack

Apr 5th, 2011, 01:48 AM

I'm a fan of the whole "walking corpse" theory. If he's wandering out to devour pokemon and people, I think he's doing it to replenish energy, and if he froze himself internally, it's definitely possible he's dead. Obviously I'd want to know why he isn't part ghost, but the dragon typing is really necessary to tie him in with Reshiram and Zekrom, if everything else wasn't enough.

On a more science-y note, Freezing things is and awesome way to preserve them. (You know, like... in a freezer :bidoof: )

What if when Reshiram and Zekrom exploded out of The ONE Dragon,The remaining pokemon was left so weakened, it used it's little remaining energy to freeze itself in a solid chunk of ice (which is what meteors are usually made of) and when it fell to earth, creating the chasm, the chunk of ice shattering, damaging its body so it was unable to fly. It devoured nearby pokemon, who eventually learned to hide from it (explaining why the Chasm isn't empty) and gained enough strength to wander out and begin feeding on the nearby village. If it was an animated corpse, it would explain the need to keep itself frozen. Cryogenics.

I'd really like to see another form, possible one with an ability or item to ignore charging.

Psycho__Ryan

Apr 7th, 2011, 09:21 PM

If there is a Second form, and if it is just a hollow shell, then I think it would be cool if it attained the second form only when all three Dragons are in your party.

Loki

Apr 9th, 2011, 02:40 AM

I just thought of something.
This is an extreme stretch pulled from my tired mind, but it might explain something.
Since Kyurem is from space or whatever, what if he* was, like, a runt or something? Maybe his stats are so low because he's an inferior of their species. Maybe they could do some thing in the third one where, like, a full version comes from space to get it or something.
Like, all the other Kyurems could be super space dragons, and this one fell to earth because it couldn't keep up with the others?
It would kinda explain his incomplete appearance, and low stats. The Kyurem in B/W could be the ugly duckling of Kyurems.
I guess I kinda just want a space themed pokemon game...

* I'm just reffering to it as male for siplicity.

aquaguy34

Apr 9th, 2011, 04:59 PM

You may be over thinking it a bit...

I think Kyurem was the corpse of the original Tao dragon and When Reshiram and Zekrom became split, the remains which is Kyurem fell from the sky and it looked like a meteor falling form the sky. also remember, the light and dark stones existed since Reshiram and Zekrom had damaged bodies afterwards. When the player/N used the stones, the two dragons have there bodies restored but Kyurem didn't get it's bodied restored from the god stone (it's a little to obvious that kyurem's stone is the god stone) so it remained "incomplete" for a long time. In the ird game, Kyurem may be able to interact with the god stone and have it's body restored to it's full potential and hopefully, Kyurem will actually be strong. This is just me speculating it since it seems everything about the legend seems to fit so well, you don't have to agree with my theory...

PokemonWorldMaster1

Apr 9th, 2011, 09:00 PM

Personnaly, I truly believe they're going to make a Pokemon Grey Version staring kyurem. I think this because Kyurem has almost the same battle theme as Reshiram and Zekrom. And if you look into the past games, they made pokemon saphire and pokemon ruby star Kyogre and Groudon. Rayquaza was in both games but very few people would mention anything about them, and you couldn't recieve it untill you defeated the pokemon League. Ring a bell? Kyurem right? You can only recieve Reshiram or Zekrom depending on which game you have, you don't hear anything abut Kyurem until after you defeat the pokemon league. Now let's go to the geneartion between Gen 3 and Gen 5. In generation 4 in diamond and pearl were the first game of the 4th generation such as Ruby & Saphire were the 1st games of genereation 3 and black and white were the 1st games of generation 5. In generation 4 you could get Dialga and Palkia each at Lv.47. Then you couldn't battle Giratina until after you defeated the elite 4 and recieve the national pokedex. You would go to the newly opened Sendoff Spring Giratina in the Turnback Cave at level 70. But in the new game that came out two years later after Diamond and Pearl came Pokemon Platinum! Just like the previous geneation. In this game, the concepts are reversed! You meet giratina during the same course of story. Then you couldn't meet Dialga and Palkia until you defeat the Pokemon League. You have also noticed that you can recieve both Dialga and Palkia and they are level 70 and Giritina is at level 47. Just like Pokemon Ruby and Saphire and Emerald. So that is why it's going to happen in this new generation. And also, I do think that GAME FREAK hates ice-types because every other type has a super legendary pokemon except ice until now, so I beleive that there is going to Be a grey version with kyurem and that N is going to get both Reshiram and Zekrom but will instead release them at the end of the game instead of disappearing with them.

aquaguy34

Apr 10th, 2011, 03:07 AM

zzz.sleeping

Apr 11th, 2011, 06:08 AM

Yep. Almost certainly, a Pokemon Grey version :3
I remember Red/Blue then Yellow
Silver/Gold then Crystal
Ruby/Sapphire then Emerald
Diamond/Pearl then Platinum
I've seen only remakes lack the 'inbetween' version ;3

LegoDude12

Apr 19th, 2011, 03:42 PM

Maybe it will be the Girantina factor with pokemon grey! I mean black and white is just begging for something in the middle.

PokemonWorldMaster1

May 10th, 2011, 12:18 AM

I have noticed two special moves that are in the games data but cannot be learned by any pokemon by regular means. These moves are the ice type moves Freeze Shock and Ice Burn. They both have a power of 140 and take two turns to charge, but look closer at these moves. Freeze SHOCK!? Ice BURN!? sounds familiar doesn't it? Freeze Shock has a chance of causing paralysis just like Zekrom's Bolt Strike and Ice Burn has a chance of burning your oppenent, just like Reshiram's Blue Flare. But since Kyurem cannot learn these moves, it is unknown if these moves will have any relationship. But if they make a Pokemon Grey Version staring Kyurem, it's signiture moves might be these moves which could very well explain it's relationship movewise. Nintendo may also air a Kyurem event that knows these two moves. But I wanted to see these moves in action so I used a move modifier to teach these moves to Kyurem and they seem like a perfect fit for Kyurem and they make it feel more strongly related to Reshiram and Zekrom and it just makes Kyurem feel more complete as it has some signiture moves now. This may be too good to be true because they're are other parts of games data that nintendo never bothered to unlock via event. Such as the last poketch apps in pokemon diamond, pearl and Platinum as well as the Azure flute to capture arceus at spear pillar. Also same with the lock capsule in Heartgold and Soulsilver so Kyurem may never truly become complete.:(

Super-Tao

May 13th, 2011, 08:57 PM

See what I think, in a very logical way IS after the split , from space, a very complete Kyurem fell from space and when it crash landed on Earth, it became damaged thus the incomplete look !

Sel

Jun 1st, 2011, 04:23 AM

Hmmm.... I've wracked my brain abit but this is what i've come up with so far:

I'll start at the beginning... Well, the beginning of the pokemon universe that is. According to lore, Arceus, The original one, Hatched from a space egg then created the world as we know it. This story is almost identical to the Story of the Chinese creation deity Pangu.

Via Wikipedia: In the beginning there was nothing in the universe except a formless chaos. However this chaos coalesced into a cosmic egg for about 18,000 years. Within it, the perfectly opposed principles of Yin and Yang became balanced and Pangu emerged (or woke up) from the egg.

Wait, Yin and Yang? Perfectly balanced? This, In my opinion, brings about two options.

1-The original Pokemon Was in fact The Original Tao Dragon, Who created Arceus.

2-Arceus, For one reason or another, gave Physical form/Life to the very force that brought him to be.

Fast forward to the Great Pokemon war.. Possibly the most telling piece of the entire story in regards to speculation about Kyurem. Why? Picture an all out war between two Newly formed Uber Dragons(Chyeah!)... I can't bring myself to believe that a war of such importance was a "Unova Exclusive" war. Something possibly echoed in none other than Johto. Seriouly!

Via bulbapedia: According to the anime, Ho-Oh lived in the Tin Tower in ancient times. When war broke out, burning both the Tin Tower and the Brass Tower down, it created Raikou, Entei, and Suicune, and all four disappeared.

Of coarse being that the above was taken from the anime, it may not apply here at all.. But, I do still believe that Johto does have it's ties to the mystery surrounding Kyurem. Why? Two reason. The Sinjoh Ruins, and Cynthia. Yes, Cynthia. The sinjoh ruins(Which is a rather frigid local) itself has ties to the Alpha Pokemon Arceus, and even Creation itself, As through a special event the player is able to obtain a Lv.1 Sinnoh Dragon Trio member Via Arceus Creating one on the spot. And who is present for the whole thing? Why it's Cynthia, Of coarse. Why? In Pearl/Dia/Plat, Cynthia travels throughout sinnoh researching the legends and myths of the land, Eventually bringing her, in HG/SS, to none other than(Dun Dada DUN!) The Sinjoh ruins!

But wait.. that's in GenIV, Right? and besides, those places i mentioned are waaaaaaaaaay away from unova, According to Nintendo and in game references. Which brings us to question why our dear Sinnoh Ex-champ shows up in Undella town?(Which is conveniently located adjacent to Lacunosa and the giant chasm) Her answer? Research of coarse! but on what? What possible Find could've spurred her to continue her search regarding Sinnohs' legends In unova? Possibly that the "One Tao Dragon" is actually involved in the creation of the Pokemon world? If so, Could Kyurem be the Remains of this "One Tao Dragon"? Following either of my theories of its' possible connection with Arceus, It becomes even the more plausible, As the balance of Yin and Yang seem to fit the bill quite nicely; Thus upon the split and subsequent absence of Yin and Yang(Reshiram and Zekrom), Otherwise known as Wuji(Which Kyurem represents) in Tao tradition, only the corpse of the "One Dragon", Aka Kyurem, Was left.

Okay, So now Kyurem is a dead body... Or maybe..... A ZOMBIE!!!!! (Dramitic gasps) No, I'm Serious. He's a falling apart, flesh eating(according to lore) Cold corpse.. What about that doesn't sound like a Zombie?
So, if Kyurem Was resurrected into a sort of Undead state, Who did it? What Pokemon is known for Bringing Other Pokemon back from the dead? My guess? Ho-oh. A pokemon native to Johto. This Brings me to a crossroads of sorts concerning Kyurem's Icy visage.

1- If Ho-oh was the cause of Kyurem's Zombified state, Is he responsible for the his Ice typing? After all, The legendary beasts embodied the elements related to their initial demise. Is Kyurem's case the same?

2-It is stated in Kyurem's Pokedex entries that the origin of the ice that covers it is generated inside it's own body. This could be due to the void of Yin/Yang within it, Giving a parallel to the Frigid void of space, Where it was to have fallen from.

3-The uber cold temps are relative to its' cold, corpse-like state.

This is all still speculation of coarse, But it makes sense to me. Though i have more to say, i'll save some for later since this is getting pretty lengthy.

wraith89

Jun 1st, 2011, 12:27 PM

Ew Cynthia :/
Getting involved in the most random stuff... and for no reason either. Ah well.

I'm a bit iffy on that one, but then again, people have made ties with some seemingly unrelated trios like the Musketeers, so anything might be possible. Nonetheless, pretty cool.

Sel

Jun 1st, 2011, 05:41 PM

Psshhh, Cynthia is a-okay in my book. I'll take her over Gary Oak any day.

The thing that puzzles me is the Godstone. It being an item that will most likely come into play when/If grey version comes out, and be instrumental in awakening, or possibly bringing a forme change to Kyurem. The awakening theory is pretty much cut and dry. But since Kyurem already physically exists within the world, it's more plausible at this point in time to assume that it should bring about a forme change.
But how? I have two theories.

1-In Grey, Both Reshiram and Zekrom Are locked in a clash that Only Kyurem can stop, But Kyurem being a mindless zombie is unable to help, So to restore the "One tao dragon" The player must seek out the Godstone, Which holds both Yin and Yang, and Make Kyurem hold it, causing him to return to his former state.(Hopefully with a Continuous Power Herb type of ability)

2-The Godstone is created when both the Light Stone and Dark Stone Release their respective Dragons in the presence of Zombie Forme Kyurem. probably just before the big showdown.

Either way, I have a sad feeling that it'll lose it's ice typing. But hopefully not.

EggieWhite545

Jun 14th, 2011, 05:00 AM

Krazinik

Jun 16th, 2011, 01:16 AM

Just a random thought, but has anyone noticed how Kyurem's tail is similar to that of Reshiram? It looks like something should plug in there, like it's missing its icy "flame/generator" equivalent. He and Zekrom also seem the share the lines that span their bodies. The overall body of Kyurem seems to match that of Reshiram and Zekrom, as far as proportions go. Large head, thin neck, smaller arms with huge legs and big toes/claws. But Kyurem looks hunched over...as if he's weakened, or perhaps, burdened by the weight of the ice.

My speculation is that Kyurem was indeed the original dragon. He would have been rather magnificent; bulky, yet elegant. A crown/crest (similar to the ice helmet he has now) would be on his head, and he would have six limbs. Wings, arms, and legs (going off of his current image, which has broken wings, arms, and legs). He would have a large mist of cold air/ice billowing out from his tail, as well as a cold air/ice "mane" or sorts flowing from between the "horns" of his crest. He would be mostly grey, but with black and white accents here and there. If anyone's interested, I can try to make a sprite of this and post it here later ^^;

There is also the energy theory; electricity and heat are forms of energy. Once those energies are released, they would leave nothing. You see, cold is not "negative energy." There's no such thing as cold; there's only an extreme lack of heat. Perhaps when the two energies left the original dragon, not only did it leave him weakened, but it also left him without heat, or "frozen."

Let's compare the energy of the two dragons to "souls" of sorts. These souls are located within the being, from the inside of his body. He would have an immense amount of power flowing throughout his body when he was whole. When the two souls left him, his body "became frozen when the energy leaked out," so to speak. Now there is nothing. No soul (explains the lack of pupils...). No energy. No heat. Absolute zero.

Perhaps when the great divide happened, he was thrown into the atmosphere by the sheer force of the energy leaving him. Imagine a nuclear bomb or splitting atoms. He returned to the earth with such speed and force that the impact created a giant crater in the ground. Now poor Kyurem, the husk of a once great and powerful dragon, wanders mindlessly. He stays near the Chasm, for he knows no other home. He only leaves at night to hunt, making no distinction between human and pokemon prey. Food is food for this soulless beast.

Meanwhile, his two halves hold hands with some random human offspring and bring death and destruction to the world over silly ideals and truths.

Talk about injustice :-/

TL;DR?
Reshiram + Zekrom = Kyurem
Kyurem - Reshiram - Zekrom = Lack of heat + Zombie Kyurem
(Lack of heat = really really cold; therefore, substitute)
Really really cold + Zombie Kyurem = the Frozen Zombie Kyurem we know now

Perhaps when the Light Stone and Dark Stone are brought together, they will merge into the God Stone. When exposed to the energy of the God Stone, Kyurem will regain his former glory as the two energies return to him and return life to him. However, since the three have been separated for so long, they have actually become their own physical beings, and the energy is merely borrowed. The three need each other in order to maintain balance. If one dies, the trio becomes disproportionate and the other two would either explode, implode, or peacefully dissipate. Kyurem is merely the absence AND presence of both energies. You know, the whole yin-yang-wuji thing. The last part is mainly just to take care of the fact that Reshiram and Zekrom would have to disappear in order to properly "return" to Kyurem, and I'm sure some people would be rather irritated that their precious dragons vanished.

I'm sure that the restored Kyurem wouldn't be quite his original self. He'd have armor and accents made of ice, his crown would be close to the helmet he has now, and his wings would probably be "finished" or "fixed," seeing as they end rather abruptly now. He'd look pretty awesome with the way I see it in my head :P I'll try to at least post drawings if I can't get sprites done any time soon ^^;

(sorry if this is too long or done wrong in some form; this is my first post on this site ^^; I joined just to post this XD )

Kyurem.2.0

Jun 21st, 2011, 02:06 AM

This is my theory. Since the discription of the Light and Dark Stones claim they are a piece of Reshiram and Zekrom's destroyed body. Point 1: How was both Reshiram and Zekrom destroyed? There is also a stone incoded into the game called the God Stone which is a grey like colour. Point 2: Is the God Stone a piece of Kyurem's destroyed body? This would explain why Kyurem looks incomplete. There are also two attacks incoded into the game that is currently unused called Ice Burn and Freeze Shock which burn and paralyze respectively. Point 3: Is this what Kyurem used to destroy Reshiram and Zekrom?

So this is how I think it went down. Kyurem (Original Forme) was split in two when the Heroes turned against each other. Reshiram and Zekrom now alined to two different sides attacked each other. During the battle Unova is being destroyed by fire and thunder. Kyurem with its last ounce of strength uses Ice Burn and Freeze Shock to stop Reshiram and Zekrom destroying Unova. After the battle all that remains is three stones: The Light Stone, The Dark Stone and The God (Grey) Stone.

This is how I think it will go down in Grey (hopefully on 3DS). At the Dragonspiral Tower (after you defeat all eight gyms) you choose whether you stand with Reshiram or Zekrom. N will aline with the one you choose not to (Note: You not catch the dragon you simply meet up with the dragon at the Castle. After defeating the league and the Castle arises from the ground you will meet up with N. But before battling with him the God Stone which you have had all this time calles to the cripled Kyurem which emerges from the Castle and is restored by the stone (Original/Restored Forme). Kyurem uses Ice Burn to defeat Zekrom and Freeze Shock to defeat Reshiram. After seeing Kyurem N will see the error of his ways and join your cause. After Reshiram and Zekrom disappear you will fight and be able to capture Kyurem (Lv50, BST: 690, ATKS: Dragon Breath, Protect, Ice Burn, Freeze Shock). Afterwards you will be challenged by Ghetis.

After defeating him and going to the end game you will later be able to capture Reshiram and Zekrom at the Dragonspiral Tower after completing a task. The task will be to journey to the Grey Mountains (Which replaces Black City/White Forest) where you will be able to find three new stones. The Yin Stone (Powers Dragon and Fire moves), The Yang Stone (Powers Dragon and Electric moves) and finally The Yuan Stone (Powers Dragon and Ice Moves). At level 100 Kyuem will learn Glaciate now has a base power of 100 as oppose to its original 65, Now has 5pp insead of 10.

wiiluver135

Jun 21st, 2011, 10:17 AM

here is a 3D model from Pokedex 3D of Kyurem...it REALLY does look broken/incomplete guys
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/830/hni0003w.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/135/hni0019x.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/192/hni0022b.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/24/hni0023i.jpg/

boktor666

Jun 21st, 2011, 11:28 AM

I was going over this earlier on, and thought of the pokemons Resharim and Zekrom as Ying and Yang. They both fill eachother up, and have both its weakness. Together they are cool and stuff, but when its not in balance, its going out of control.. What if Kyurem is the emodiement of the balance? Ideals, truth, but whats left in this ...I have the feeling something is missing.

Then again, might have been mentioned earlier, but the eyes of the 3 pokemon seem to relate to eachother, as resharim has blue eyes, the color of Kyurem. Zekrom has red eyes, the color of Resharim, and Kyurem has Yellow eyes, the color of Zekroms Thunder. Hmm,

The fact thats its base stats are lower might indeed relate to the original dragon, but what if there was another from, and the REAL dragon has yet to be seen? What if Kyurem has the ability to shape form, like Arceus and Genesect using items?

Krazinik

Jun 27th, 2011, 08:44 AM

Hey Yall :) Managed to sprite my version of a restored Kyurem. Forgive me if the image size is too large ^^;

http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/178/7/b/kyurem_restored_sprite_by_akira_wishmaker-d3k50fr.png

It's a little...off as far as size goes (I think he's 80x95pixels....a little too large for the games thanks to the misty stuffs, but that can be fixed ^^; ), and he's certainly not exactly in the same style as the true sprites (Yay 100% scratch!), but hey, it's just a doodle to get an idea out :)

Any thoughts? Also, if anyone knows how I can improve this, feel free to let me know ^^;

Minor explainations: His arms are encased in Ice, with his claws exposed. He uses the ice as swords almost. Ice Blade, anyone? XD Anywho, he's covered in icy armor and strong enough to stand upright again :D Remember, this is just my own interpretation of him after his power/life is restored to him. No noticable Reshiram/Zekrom traits in this one. I'll get to work on the Great Dragon as soon as I get home from work today :3

wraith89

Jun 27th, 2011, 12:18 PM

Wow this thread really took off :S

I would have never thought of a bipedal Kyurem in humanoid form to be frank, but it looks quite nice.

Sel

Jun 29th, 2011, 12:19 AM

Wow :| apparently copy/paste doesn't function correctly here anymore, But yeah...

Nicely done sprite, Krazinik, It looks great. Can't wait to see a sprite of the original dragon.

On to speculation, I wonder how Kyurem will affect the story in grey(If it's ever made). Might your childhood friend Cheren(Who seems to pursue ideals) become one of the heroes that is destined to awaken one of either Reshiram or Zekrom, Requiring the player to attain Kyurem and the Godstone to avert the second war between Reshiram and Zekrom? Even if that comes to pass, As things are now, Kyurem, and the great chasm for that matter cannot be reached until after the player defeats the Elite four and N.

In my mind, this scenario brings forth two possibilities.

1 - The awakening of Reshiram and Zekrom Stir Kyurem and Draw him from his home in search of his missing "parts".

2 - Team plasma Awaken Kyurem in order to carry out their pokemon liberation plan.

It is also possible that alternatively, Ghetsis will first awaken and capture Kyurem, all the while Searching for a second hero to awaken either one of Reshiram and Zekrom in order to restore Kyurem to his former power; thus rendering him the strongest trainer in the world.
in the event that would come to pass, The player may be forced to challenge Cheren and N, then Capture Their respective dragons to use in the fight against Ghetsis.

Of coarse, that's a long shot, but it's just an example of how how Kyurem could affect the future storyline of the proposed third version.

TheKyuremMaster

Jul 1st, 2011, 01:33 AM

I think I'll go with the Arceus Theory. He's right, 649 is an odd number. I have a hunch that when the 1 dragon separated, one half was Reshiram, one half was Zekrom, and the energy left over fell in the form of an Ice Meteor. And from the Ice Meteor came Kyurem. That's why Kyurem looks incomplete. However, it still inherits part of the other two, considering the three came from the same dragon. I'm kinda expecting that the 650th Pokemon will be the original dragon, but i don't know what type it would be. Maybe Fire/Electric? Or maybe they introduce three types into the game? Or possibly it starts off as just a Dragon Type, but the Light Stone, Dark Stone and God Stone become normal items to put on the Dragon, and it changes type to Dragon/Fire, Dragon/Electric, or Dragon/Ice and it also changes colour? I don't know. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

xXxJolteonForeverxXx

Jul 1st, 2011, 07:58 PM

I agree. I think he should have some sort of alternate form or something exciting like Giratina because Giratina looked like a boss, and in reality, he was a boss. Although i really dont see a relationship between Kyurem, Reshiram, and Zeckrom. It seems as if Nintendo and Gamefreak are, unfortunately, just running out of ideas. Like looks at all the other regions. Kanto, Moltres, Zapdos, and Articuno all made sence because the represented one another. Kanto, the god pokemon still represent theselves although i have no idea how they represent Ho-Oh and Lugia, Hoenn, Groundon, Kyoger, and Rayquaza had a real story line to it. Shinnoh, Dialga and Palkia alone showed how everything was made then Giratina came in and everything made even more sence. Unova, The "dog" pokemon dont really tell any story let alone, they dont have any resembelence besides the fact that they are all by-pedal, Reshiram, and Zeckrom are beautiful pokemon who kinda have an ok story line just could be better. I just have no idea how Kyruem is going to fit into place here.

Hey Yall :) Managed to sprite my version of a restored Kyurem. Forgive me if the image size is too large ^^;

http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/178/7/b/kyurem_restored_sprite_by_akira_wishmaker-d3k50fr.png

It's a little...off as far as size goes (I think he's 80x95pixels....a little too large for the games thanks to the misty stuffs, but that can be fixed ^^; ), and he's certainly not exactly in the same style as the true sprites (Yay 100% scratch!), but hey, it's just a doodle to get an idea out :)

Any thoughts? Also, if anyone knows how I can improve this, feel free to let me know ^^;

Minor explainations: His arms are encased in Ice, with his claws exposed. He uses the ice as swords almost. Ice Blade, anyone? XD Anywho, he's covered in icy armor and strong enough to stand upright again :D Remember, this is just my own interpretation of him after his power/life is restored to him. No noticable Reshiram/Zekrom traits in this one. I'll get to work on the Great Dragon as soon as I get home from work today :3

Yes! thats really good :D now pokemon just needs to get that image in there

btw why couldnt they make Kyruem more..... full..

I believe that kyurem is the broken remains of the 1 dragon pokemon that reshiram and zekrom once were. I thought that perhaps he will only be capable of learning one of those hidden moves at a time and then with this move, and a special hold item, his type would change accordingly, if he knows ice burn he becomes dragon/fire and if he knows freeze shock he becomes dragon/electric, maybe not exactly like that but i think perhaps he will somehow have the ability to be all three type combos (dragon/ice, dragon/fire, dragon/electirc), but after the split, reshiram came off with his fire powers, zekrom came off with his electirc powers and kyurem crashed down becoming a weak shadow of his former self, losing his control of fire and electric and therefor losing his ice burn and freeze shock moves, and now he hides away in that cave waiting for a way to regain his former power and kick reshiram and zekrom's butts into next week.

or something like that.....

you might be on to something, like since the game said that Resiram and Zeckrom are incomplete without one another, maybe this is where the Kyruem factor takes its place

ScientificPikachu

Jul 4th, 2011, 06:24 AM

I have another pic of Kyurem in a Bird's eye view. I'd REALLY believe that it IS really incomplete
see...
8883

So it is really a "What an ugly Pokemon to have!"

TheKyuremMaster

Jul 18th, 2011, 04:20 AM

First Post on Project Pokemon, so here goes:

My money's on the Arceus Factor. Gamefreak couldn't just state a mighty dragon and not use it in a game. And Arceus didn't show up until a while after Diamond and Pearl were released.

I also have a small theory. I installed Pokesav onto my Pokemon White ROM. Sure, I found Ice Burn and Freeze Shock, and I think the God Stone, but when I looked in the Pokemon Party Editor, there was a certain aspect that was where you could edit where you met a certain Pokemon, and a few of the locations were Pokemon Movies, leading from about Pokemon Movie 11 through to Pokemon Movie 21, roughly. So there HAS to be a 650th Pokemon out there.

Mr.MewMew

Jul 21st, 2011, 05:56 PM

I would definitely say that the things hidden in the programming, like the two moves and the God Stone, are things that Gamefreak intentionally took out for use in a sister game (Gray version?). But the exact use of these could be tricky. My own professional (in my own mind) opinion is that the God Stone would restore Kyurem to it's former self (it being the corpse of the at one time single dragon), much likethe Dark and Light Stones contained Zekrom and Reshiram. Also, since at one Kyurem could have been one entity containing both of these two, it was possibly (very stretched here) triple typed? Possibly Dragon/Fire/Lightning? And then as said before, the corpse rose with the Dragon form and Ice powers from it's descent back to Earth? So in that scenario, it could have both ultimate attacks, since they both involve ICE and Fir or Electric, which shows it's connection to the other two dragons. I love talking about this, I feel like a crackpot dispelling rumors about the JFK murder!

Mr.MewMew

Jul 22nd, 2011, 12:10 AM

In my mind Gray will be a sequel of Black/White. The reason I say that is because the last thing relevant to the story said in the game is something along the lines of "A boy with green hair was spotted flying on a Black/White Dragon. I have to go. If I see you again we will talk more". It's begging for a sequel.
We all know there won't be another pokemon game for the DS, so I think that Gamefreak will just make G VI for the 3DS with Grey to kick it off.
What I hope for is that you start out as the character from Black/White with some good lvl 60-70 pokemon (Zekrom/Reshiram being one of them). After the tutorial as the character from Black/White and the possible start of another war you switch to a newbie trainer.
What I want in Gray
-Shadow Pokemon (Like the gamecube games)
-Multiple Regons accessed by Boat, Train or Plane (like being able to visit Orre, Hoen and Sinoh or something)
-History based storyline (Getting to know more about Pokearth and the legendary lore)
-Mentions of past 'Heroes'

On the topic of Kyurem, I do think he is the shell of some type of Legendary or God. Maybe he was too powerful so they scooped out his insides, soul or power and turned them/it into the Godstone, that would explain his mangled appearance and use of the Ice element. But that is a bit dark for Pokemon.

I think we would be better story writers than the people at Gamefreak. Heh.

While that would be insanely awesome, no, there is absolutely no way that will happen. Gray will be a third sister game like all the others, with aspects of both Black and White in it, although seemingly missing something, as always. But it will involve Kyurem more, just as the third sister game (minus Yellow Version) always does with the third, lesser-known about being of the trio. So no, not a sequel, just another remake, more than likely one that will be on the original DS platform and not specifically for 3DS (even Nintendo and Gamefreak know not to advance like that all of the sudden).

Lorshinator

Jul 24th, 2011, 12:49 PM

Interesting thread. I like things about Kyurem lol.
He better have an alternative form. I was thinking that the orb would actually, as probably said earlier, change his ability to remove charge up time, or it could give him levitate.
As for his design, I hope he becomes more serpent like as opposed to just looking like another Reshiram/Zekrom mix.

MrPokemon

Aug 11th, 2011, 11:25 PM

Maybe all is not as it seems. Maybe Kyurem didn't fall off the meteor. Maybe it was where the Giant Chasm is now, and it summoned the meteors. Maybe it summoned them to split it into Reshiram and Zekrom. Maybe... I'm saying maybe too much. But this makes sense. Kyurem uses a super powerful Draco Meteor to split itself into the other two in its trio. But somehow, its original form survived. The meteors had damaged it, weakening it. These meteors may have released the ice from inside Kyurem that now freezes its body. Kyurem may have had no choice at the time but to gain nurishment from the people of Lacanusa Town. But now, Kyurem is stronger. The God Stone will grant Kyurem power, power enough to resume its old form. Power to rival Reshiram and Zekrom, Mewtwo, or even Arceus!

P.S.-Imagine the reaction of the people of Lacanusa Town if you let Kyurem out of its Pokeball after you caught it right in the middle of their city...

ScientificPikachu

Aug 12th, 2011, 07:39 AM

God Stone umm... http://www.serebii.net/itemdex/godstone.shtml
EDIT: and it looks like the Light Stone and the Dark Stone

Lucario

Aug 12th, 2011, 10:29 PM

Hmhm...Interesting thread, interesting theories about my favorite Legendary pokemon in Unova.(Shpeal and Vanillite will spit on this Pokemon's face)

Well well here it goes:
-In the Black/White sequel(which I think is more likely to be on 3DS), Ghestis is out to find Kyurem and be a bu** kicking villain once again.
-In the near future, Gamefreak will learn from their mistake(S) and have Kyurem learn Sheer cold, Frost breath and have Glaciate be like Blue Flare and Bolt Strike('coz it's super weak or if not possible, make it that it Freezes whenever it hits). Make it have storm warning for an ability instead of the really (dare I say) pressure.
-Kyurem may be related to Reshiram and Zekrom, but is neither up to ideals and truths. Or maybe it has, just that it has a different point of view than the other two.

I have a lot racing in my mind, I just have to wait till it's there. I had high hopes for Kyurem even a year ago. So I hope they make something so that Kyurem will be impressive like the other two. (I hope they don't name it Grey)

PokemonWorldMaster1

Aug 13th, 2011, 03:27 AM

If you ask me, I think that in the new grey version (if there is one) that maybe Kyurem will have two new special hold items that may coantain the powers of Reshiram and the other contains the power of zekrom and they may say, (for reshirams item), A gleaming white stone to be held by Reshiram, it boosts the power of fire- and dragon-type moves, and (Zekroms signiture item) A deep black stone to be held by zekrom, it boosts the power of Electric- and Dragon-type moves. These items may power up Reshiram's and Zekrom's attacks. (Adamant Orb or Lustrous orb people?) However if you give Reshiram's item to Kyurem it may become a fire- and dragon type or ice- and fire type (Which would be the first of it's kind by the way) and it's form ould change and have high Sp. Attack and learn fusion flare and at level 100 learn ice burn but then forget it's new moves upon changing back (Rotom's forme change anyone? And Also by the way I don't think ANYONE saw that coming, Like Rotom's forme changing into a microwave, fan, refridgerator , lawn mower and washing machine would have gotten a ton of laughs if you traveled back to the time of only Diamond and pearl and told people about this) Sorry, got a little off topic there and with Kyurem holding Zekrom's item it's forme will change again and have the same base stats as Zekrom and learn Fusion Bolt and at level 100 learn Freeze Shock and, like I said before, forget these moves upon going back. Who knows what to expect.

Also, and this is off topic, I would like to know if there will be spin off games of Pokemon Black and White. such as the 4th pokemon ranger game and Pokemon mystery dungeon each coantaining the new Unova pokemon

PokemonWorldMaster1

Aug 13th, 2011, 03:49 AM

One other thing that I noticed is that if you look on your town map you'll see that to the west and north of Unova, the conteneint doesn't end. So maybe one day like maybe in pokemon grey or a further generation you'll get to head north or west to a different region. Kind of like Kanto and johto. Also if you remember when N's castle was rising out of the ground, most people were probrably just looking at the impressive graphics of the castle but if you chose to take your attention off of the rising castle and looked beyond it, you would see many dark looming mountains in the distance so maybe there will be a new region beyond that mountain range that will hold new pokemon or old retro pokemon.

Kyurem.2.0

Aug 27th, 2011, 07:49 AM

I think Kyurem will need either a new signature move which is it's own move and nothing to do with Bolt Strike and Blue Flare. The waiting a turn is lame. Glaciate is good but needs yo be changed to have a more higher base power. If it is on 3ds (I hope) the potential of the graphics is so much greater so new animation would be awesome!!

kyuremslegend

Sep 2nd, 2011, 06:44 AM

hey has anyone relised that the pokedex goes zeckrom landorus then kyurem then in the sinnoh it goes dialga palkia misses 2 girantina
it looks like a pattern to me

Kyurem.2.0

Sep 10th, 2011, 07:06 AM

Check this out: a blured image of a possible Kyurem forme. I bet it is like a serpentine type dragon like Giratina in orgin forme. Website: http://www.pokebeach.com/forums/printthread.php?tid=96517&page=3 , Image: http://i53.tinypic.com/1zd9g8.jpg . (Muscular Zekrom + Slender Reshiram) x Damaged Kyurem forme = Kyurem (Serpentine/Restored Forme)!!!!

wraith89

Sep 10th, 2011, 12:53 PM

Mind telling me what page those people at pokebeach are referring to? Because I can't seem to find anything. Also, that Kyurem doesn't look right, but then again, many people denounced the Rotom formes as fake along with the final evolutions of the Unova starters... meaning I'm scared :/

Alas... http://www.pokebeach.com/forums/thread-1-corocoro-announces-new-pokemon-game-next-month-movie-14-downloads-5-12?pid=1935818#pid1935818
And the whole thing is pretty old.

ABZB

Sep 12th, 2011, 06:15 PM

I don't know if this has been mentioned, but in the ROM, Kyurem has a hex value for the form change indicator that is the same as meloeta's, but it does not have the data pointing at an additonal form (i.e. # of forms is the normal amount, and the alternate form identifier is zero). Reshiram and zekrom have normal values for all of the form-change data. I therefor suspect that kyurem will have a move that changes its form in gray. I suspect that freeze shock and frost burn will turn it into forms resembling zekrom and reshiram respectively. The question is why the value was put in at all in Black/White. Probably it is either needed for wireless battling with kyurem between BW and Grey to work, or they originally were going to implement it in BW, but decided against it.

Question: In DPPt data, was there a similar thing with giratina's new form?

wraith89

Sep 12th, 2011, 06:33 PM

That's actually quite interesting. Great find! It's either a deleted data or they were planning on it to put it in the next game... or Gamefreak is trolling us. But I am pretty sure that extra bit of data is relevant, because so many things hint about an upcoming Kyurem upgrade, which is a lot more apparent than Giratina since Giratina was very self-sustained as a standalone Pokemon.

Maybe one of our programmers know about Giratina's data. I did not know such value existed though. How about Rotom? Does Rotom have such a byte or is its method of transformation some other special factor?

Bond697

Sep 12th, 2011, 06:46 PM

all the pokes with a form/multiple forms have similar data. frankly, i wouldn't put too much stock in this until you actually see a kyurem form sometime down the line. there's no proof whatsoever that it isn't just cut content.

mulhollinman

Dec 4th, 2011, 10:57 PM

i agree with alot of the ideas posted on this thread but i have a new idea:
it has not been mentioned yet of the possiblity of a new type? my theroy is once zekrom and reshiram fuse into kyurem again(or however the true dragon will be formed) insted of changing kyurems types between combinations of dragon ice and fire a whole new type will be created! a type that only the true dragon will have think about it theres only 17 types ( not including ???) and that seems like a pretty weird number. This new type will be superior to all other types in defensses and strengths and will make dragon typing look weak. Just a thought i have more theroys mayb ill post later but anyway thats my peice and again i love this thread.... really interesting to think about.

Kyuremfan

Dec 5th, 2011, 03:24 PM

what if kyurem can form change like Giratina instead of having to have the other two dragons and also since there is data coding for another form for Kyurem in Black and White then maybe you can somehow have the form change in black and white.

abb7

Dec 7th, 2011, 03:25 AM

faospark

Dec 7th, 2011, 05:18 AM

I think Gam Freak will go beyond for Kyurem if they want to develop the pokemon's following or fanbase, look wise ans stats wise this pokemon is so broken down like you begin to speculate if such move of the desiginers was intended or they are just simply run out of time , I say if Kyurem will have multiple forms like Giratina, they better make sure that its stats are way beyond of Reshiram and Zekrom. A new movie will be released sometime soon. Nintendo/gamefreak needs to prove the importance Kyurem's existence in the franchise. this pokemon not only needs a good background story, it has another purpose and that is to fill in the story behind Reshiram and Zekrom.

Kyuremfan

Dec 7th, 2011, 09:03 AM

I completely agree except for the dragon steel typing but if they do not give Kyurem an upgraded form I personally boycott or protest gamefreak and I am pretty sure mulholliman will too also I am pretty sure they will make an updated version of Kyurem or else they will lose many customers that like Kyurem now

mulhollinman

Dec 7th, 2011, 09:11 AM

hey has anyone relised that the pokedex goes zeckrom landorus then kyurem then in the sinnoh it goes dialga palkia misses 2 girantina
it looks like a pattern to me

i didnt notice that till now but probably nothing significant.

abb7

Dec 8th, 2011, 03:01 AM

At serebii, they said there's gonna be a new movie called ''Kyurem VS the Sacred Swordsmen. This doesn't even explain anything about it's connection between Zek and Resh.

wraith89

Dec 8th, 2011, 06:24 AM

This is so weak! I think Articuno is better because it learns sheer cold! You know move upgrades? Well I think Glaciate will have 80 BP, 100 Accuracy And 100% chance of lowering speed by two stages in Grey. There is a possiblity that there's gonna be an event with freeze shck and ice burn. And I think it will have a Dragon/Steel Second Form. Just my oppinions.

Though Kyurem has a lot left to be desired, it's certainly much better than Articuno. Articuno is a pathetic excuse of a legendary that either needs a complete revamp or needs to be completely trashed. Unfortunately Gamefreak did not see this or blatantly decided to ignore it and let it be. Kyurem, even in this "incomplete form", is actually very useful. I'd rather it stick with Ice typing and charge up on those secret moves need to go...

mulhollinman

Dec 8th, 2011, 08:16 AM

At serebii, they said there's gonna be a new movie called ''Kyurem VS the Sacred Swordsmen. This doesn't even explain anything about it's connection between Zek and Resh.

well then wraith or whoever posted about the relations they had was right and im sure theyre not gonna leave out zek and resh theyll be in there just mayb not how we imaginned it

Kyuremfan

Dec 8th, 2011, 08:45 AM

Who knows? Maybe this new movie will spread alittle light on some important aspects and abilities of Kyurem maybe not a full explanation of his origins. I do think there will be some light shed on this and possibly there will be some explanation of at least a part of the relationship between ReshiramZekrom and Kyurem after all they did release their movies and now they are releasing Kyurems movie right after, it is not a coincidence I am catiously optimistic abou this movie. Also who do you think the swordsman may be? I think they might be the musketeer quartet and then if that is true we might finally get a Keldeo event and the connection between the tao trio and the musketeers may be explained and why they hate humans so much

abb7

Dec 9th, 2011, 01:02 AM

The ''Sacred Swordsmen'' Are the Musketeer Trio. I haven't seen Keldeo yet.

Kyuremfan

Dec 9th, 2011, 11:06 AM

I will try to find a good pic of Keldeo and also there is a Kyurem fan group now if anyone cares

abb7

Dec 9th, 2011, 03:42 PM

I mean I know what Keldeo looks like but I havn't seen it in the movie pictures yet.

mulhollinman

Dec 10th, 2011, 10:17 PM

mayb keldeo wont be in the movie

Kyuremfan

Dec 13th, 2011, 02:10 PM

I believe that Keldeo will be in the movie because they cant have the musketeers and not keldeo

mulhollinman

Dec 13th, 2011, 05:34 PM

I believe that Keldeo will be in the movie because they cant have the musketeers and not keldeo

They could it just would be lame

Kyuremfan

Dec 15th, 2011, 04:18 PM

How actualy nevermind lets get back to the actual topic: Kyurem

sheep261

Feb 16th, 2012, 10:53 AM

I know no one's probably looking at this thread now, but I have come up with my own conclusions about Kyurem...

1) Is it me or has everyone else forgotten about the dragon head skull in one of the earlier missions? Its desription was about a dragon that flew in the skies. WITH referrence to this and the Grey/God stone in the game, perhaps these items are specifically needed for Kyurem perhaps? I feel that the skull has a purpose in the Grey when it comes out. I have never liked it when an Item has no apparent purpose :x

2) *sigh* These 2 moves. I feel that while everyone can go on and on saying they will be learnt at lvl 100, I have a feeling they are based on something else. I think Grey will be based on a choice game; what I mean by this is that your actions in various events cause the ending to change. I think this means that N will choose whatever dragon relating to your choices, and Kyurem will learn the opposite move to the dragon. Speculation I guess, but it makes sense if the other 2 dragons have 2 special moves, so Kryuem should have 2 only as well.

3) N does some magaical tricks and the trio all form up to create the Dragon. 649 is the weirdest number to end on, so of course there will have to be another pokemon added. My personal beliefs is that the dragon will be made when the trio are all together in one place...

4) How Kyurem is shown to us is that its incomplete. SOMETHING is going to happen that will make it complete. Think of lego perhaps; you can make something perfect, but it can be destroyed and left in pieces. Kyurem is the shell of the original dragon, with the other 2 being broken from it. The duo will form up with Kyurem in order to make it whole again, hence making it perfect again.

5) Finally, my most crazy one yet. Kyurem will be given an item that will change its shape, like Giratina, but will also cause it to change its typing. As much as I like the typiing, something strikes me strange about it. At the moment I cant place a finger on it, but hopefully the 15th film will shed some answers maybe :/

jalden96

Feb 18th, 2012, 11:51 PM

Okay, here's what I think is/will happen:

-Kyurem is the corpse/zombie of the original dragon (I taught mine shadow ball for this reason)
-Kyurem will probably gain a form that unlocks some kind of ability, think darumitan? (maybe through dream world although not sure how this works since kyurem has no dream world abilities)
-Instead of negating the charge time for kyrurem's special moves, this ability could increase the power of moves that require a charge, thus playing to both a strength and a weakness, low defenses but two high'-powered moves that require a charge.

I stress that a good portion of this post probably makes no sense but... hey, it'
s a speculation thread.

jalden96

Feb 18th, 2012, 11:54 PM

@sheep261 oh, I like your idea about grey being a Choice based game, sorry maybe a little off topic...

wraith89

Feb 29th, 2012, 09:54 PM

I updated the first post in response to the Pokemon Black/White 2 update:

031Since The Release of Pokemon Black/White 2

386386-1386-2386-3

The Deoxys Factor?!

It is quite possible the new implementation of two different Kyurem forms might be the Deoxys treatment from Gen III, which is where Deoxys mainfested different forms depending on the version. Ruby/Sapphire had the normal Deoxys, Fire Red had the attack form Deoxys, Leaf Green had the defence form Deoxys, and Emerald had the speed form Deoxys. I admit I did not think of this before, but so far with the presentation of two Kyurems representing two different versions as opposed to a Grey version that we all speculated may only mean this is the way they are headed... or Gamefreak is trolling as usual.

Now we may know where Ice Burn and Freeze Shock may go to... and I suspect both forms specialise in different stats (Black Kyurem has better physical stats, White Kyurem has better special stats). Their typing and ability? Only time will tell, but some people speculate that Black Kyurem will sport an Ice/Electric typing while White Kyurem will sport an Ice/Fire typing. Personally, I don't buy that as I don't believe one can remove Kyurem's fundamental Dragon typing, but I'm not the one to talk. I was thinking more of Rotom's manifestation from Gen IV where it maintained its original typing while it changed forms (in Kyurem's case Dragon/Ice).

My personal speculation is a Dragon/Ice typed Kyurem with an ability that either boosts its Fire/Electric attacks to provide pseudo-STAB (depending on its form), an ability that hopefully removes charge up time (though they never added a new ability in-generation before), Levitate, or... troll us with the ubiquitous yet boring ability Pressure that the disfigured Kyurem has. The Black Kyurem will gain Electric attacks while White Kyurem will gain Fire attacks.

Just for reference, Ice/Electric types have weaknesses to Ground, Fire, Rock, Fighting and resist Ice, Electric, and Flying attacks. Ice/Fire types have a quadruple weakness to Rock (stupid Stealth Rocks), normal weakness to Fighting, Ground, Water and quadruple resist Ice, and normally resist Grass and Bug.

http://pokebeach.com/news/0212/pokemon-black-white-2.jpg

The two new Kyurems

Personally, I dislike the new forms in terms of aesthetics. I have no idea how they will function competitively nor do I know what promises they hold for the plot, but they are literally fusions of Reshiram/Zekrom and Kyurem. I feel they could have done better.

wiiluver135

Feb 29th, 2012, 11:46 PM

http://www.pokemon-movie.jp/trailer/index.php

You'll want to checkout the new videos...they seem to give off more information that sides with the The Musketeer Connection.

PokemonWorldMaster1

Jul 18th, 2012, 09:19 PM

*= This item is it's Japanese name and is subject to change in the English dub.
I can tell you all about the two new forms of Kyurem:
Black Kyurem: Black Kyurem forms when the item DNA Link Pin* is used on Kyurem and then on Zekrom. Zekrom will disappear from the party and Black Kyurem will be left
Type: Dragon/Ice
Ability: Teravolt
Move changes: Once changed, the move Glaciate becomes Freeze Shock, and Scary Face becomes Fusion Bolt and Vise Versa.
Base Stats:
HP: 125
Attack: 170
Defense: 100
Sp. Attack: 120
Sp. Defense: 90
Speed: 95
Total: 700

White Kyurem: White Kyurem forms when the item DNA Link Pin* is used on Kyurem and then Reshiram. Reshiram will then disappear from the party and White Kyurem will be left. This can be reversed by using the DNA Link Pin* on White Kyurem.
Type: Dragon/Ice
Ability: Turboblaze
Move Changes: When changed into White Kyurem, Glaciate will become Ice Burn and Scary Face will become Fusion Flare and Vise Versa.
Base Stats:
Hp: 125
Atk: 120
Defense: 90
Sp. Attack: 170
Sp. Defense 100
Speed: 95
Total: 700
Well Kyurem as certainly made a better name for itself. With it's base stats that exceed every Pokemon except Arceus. And it's new signature moves that are the most powerful of it's kind. Kyurem has changed and made up for it's shortcommings from the preveious games. But is it worth it? After all you have to sacrifice an already powerful legendary just to change it. It's signature moves still require charging and it's ability isn't much of an improvement. Plus if it changes back to it's regular form, it loses it's new moves and they will revert back to Glaciate and Scary face which disallows it to ever be seen in Black and White. And thanks to the DNA Link Pin's* Mechanic, both Black and White Kyurem can not exist in one game at the same time. Even if you have two Kyurems, Zekrom an Reshiram Present. Well not to discourage anyone because anything you do with Kyurem can be easily undone and it is still much more powerful than it was.

Fab

Sep 4th, 2012, 10:58 AM

randomspot555

Sep 4th, 2012, 01:58 PM

The only thing that pisses me off about legendaries is the fact that they sometmes turn out be average pokemons. They are supposed to be LEGENDARIES, pokemons that cannot be defeated so easily or that suffer fightning against many others. Don't know if you think so but that what pisses me off all the time!

In no way does "Legendary Pokemon" ever meant to be "cannot be defeated easily". All a Legendary Pokemon is is one that is defined as such by GameFreak, Nintendo, etc... All the fan-made rules of what constitutes a Legendary Pokemon often are invalid a generation or two later (The Kanto Bird trio aren't tied into the plot of any game, Latios/Latias/Heatran all have genders, Shaymin can have two different abilities, the Golem trio have a non-Pressure ability, etc...).

Typically, Legendary Pokemon are challenging to catch in-game, if they're able to be encountered. But what happens in-game in the Gyms and E4 challenge is a different environment than what happens on a battle simulator.

Fab

Sep 4th, 2012, 03:49 PM

In no way does "Legendary Pokemon" ever meant to be "cannot be defeated easily". All a Legendary Pokemon is is one that is defined as such by GameFreak, Nintendo, etc... All the fan-made rules of what constitutes a Legendary Pokemon often are invalid a generation or two later (The Kanto Bird trio aren't tied into the plot of any game, Latios/Latias/Heatran all have genders, Shaymin can have two different abilities, the Golem trio have a non-Pressure ability, etc...).

Typically, Legendary Pokemon are challenging to catch in-game, if they're able to be encountered. But what happens in-game in the Gyms and E4 challenge is a different environment than what happens on a battle simulator.
Yes, but I'd like them to more "unfair" and with unfair I intend able to sweep out half of the teams present in the game. And I don't see Reshiram or Zekrom able to do so, or maybe I simply cannot use them properly.

Lucario

Sep 6th, 2012, 12:07 PM

Well, Kyurem being branded as the strongest dragon pokemon is a big claim(at least in the movie or just in Unova).... So I don't know how much there is more for Kyurem as of the moment.

So back to the topic....Black/White Kyurem will slap Palkia and Dialga silly.......speculation(???)

wraith89

Sep 7th, 2012, 11:24 AM

Yes, but I'd like them to more "unfair" and with unfair I intend able to sweep out half of the teams present in the game. And I don't see Reshiram or Zekrom able to do so, or maybe I simply cannot use them properly.

Any Pokemon have their strengths and weaknesses, and Reshiram and Zekrom are both miles apart from regular Pokemon. Maybe you're leaving them into a Draco Meteor from Salamence and you're wondering why none of them can survive it... they are rather unfair actually and are banned from standard play. You may want to learn a bit about competitive battling to know more about it. That being said, just because they're stronger than your average Pokemon doesn't mean they're invincible.

In-game, you'd probably be able to solo everyone with just one of either one... just don't put all electric attacks on Zekrom or you're at the mercy of something like Drilbur...

Fab

Sep 7th, 2012, 04:47 PM

Any Pokemon have their strengths and weaknesses, and Reshiram and Zekrom are both miles apart from regular Pokemon. Maybe you're leaving them into a Draco Meteor from Salamence and you're wondering why none of them can survive it... they are rather unfair actually and are banned from standard play. You may want to learn a bit about competitive battling to know more about it. That being said, just because they're stronger than your average Pokemon doesn't mean they're invincible.

In-game, you'd probably be able to solo everyone with just one of either one... just don't put all electric attacks on Zekrom or you're at the mercy of something like Drilbur...
Yeah, actually I'm also learning more about the modern gameplay, consider that last game I played was Pokemon Gold before black and white.

KyuremTheorem

Apr 23rd, 2013, 02:53 AM

Hai.

Now That i have your attention,
i think kyurem IS the husk of the other two splitting, but i also belive that B/W Kyurem prove alot of things. I will list what i can Connect.

ZEKROM/RESHIRAM is fused with KYUREM easily.

If kyurem is fused with BOTH, what would suffice? would the World collapse from the emmense power of True Kyurem? or would The three just dissapear? would it just fail? who knows. anything might happen. if X and Y Reveal something about this, things would be solved. but considering *angered* GAMEFREAK, that most likely wont happen. If anyone wants, we could leech gamefreak/nintendo by agreeing on one rumor, assuming it true.

2
If A true dragon existed, kyurem may be the body of the dragon afterwords. anyways, i like kyreum the way he is. its cool. someone i know called it a chicken, almost punched them.

3
im getting off topic, so i will focus now.

That one dragon that kyurem was, would look nothing like it except the diamond on its head.

4
Arceus might have created it as its Protector, and lost power doing so, and made humans to occupy it until it was split, creating kyurem.

i cant draw or sprite, but if you can i want you to try to do this by description, if you do, pm me with it or post it here. Now imagine this:

A easily 6 foot dragon and then some.
It walks on two, powerful legs, maybe two feet wide, and four feet high.
It has a powerful silver torso, and two winged arms in a deep black. they pulse a intense flame out of them.
it has a mouth like kyurem's, but not frozen, an with two grey mane-like tails, and one reptilian one, darker than the other two.
it has a golden diamond-shaped crest in between each one. it has vast white wings pulsing elecricity, shaped like zekroms, but fur can been seen around the edges. it has a massive tail filled with two mixed energies. it's back is grey, lightening on the side, darkening in the middle.

i dont care about everything else. sorry for long post.

Preparefortrouble

Apr 25th, 2013, 07:41 PM

Kyurem is a strange Pokemon and honestly I wish instead of white and black kyurem to see all 3 come together and make the original dragon pokemon
I wonder what it looked like

Mewtwo Ex

Apr 29th, 2013, 01:03 PM

The ''true dragon'' will come when Mewthree comes... Your fanboy tears aside, it would break the games stat-wise. If you combine 3 legendaries with over 660 stats each and up... You get something that screams - ''Don't buy me! I'm unfair!'' - Since all will use that OP abomination ruining the experience for players.

Consider this:
Kyurem was beaten badly and now fuses with the other two out of their sympathy to regain lost power. Since it has it's face and not Zekrom or Reshiram's i can assume they willingly let it use their strength. Also remember that in the anime, neither Zekrom nor Reshiram were present during his transformation.
1 - It either has their D.N.A. in it so it transforms with their power.
2 - It is either was the original before the Yin And Yang. However absolute zero is supposed to be after Yin and Yang. So this is far fetched.
3 - Arceus' protector? You do know that Gamefreak sees money bills and electric rodents, not advanced fan logic, right?
4 - Why would you almost punch someone because they shared their opinion of a Pokemon that walks indeed like a chicken, has small wings like a chicken, can float short distance like a chicken, that has a sharp face like a chicken?

https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/2985428438/33f16358d808e20968eff64dc3027e3e.pnghttp://static2.mypetchicken.com/images/chickenPix/large/LegRun.jpg

KyuremTheorem

Apr 29th, 2013, 02:39 PM

Preparefortrouble

May 1st, 2013, 04:12 AM

KyuremTheorem

May 7th, 2013, 12:15 PM

Btw, the stats wouldn't be like stat total 1000, they'd be more like the 800 area. I mean arceus is the god of all pokemon and his stat total is like 800-ish.

New avatar. Lol at it.

And chickens don't have hands or frozen body parts. Nor do they have tails. Those a feathers, my "friend".

Mewtwo Ex

May 7th, 2013, 05:23 PM

This is a completely useless topic it seems. All a pointless guesses and fanboy dreams.
1 - Arceus is one pokemon.
2 - Black Kyurem / White Kyurem are two Pokemon smashed into one because of Nintendo's current lack of creativity.
3 - It got a significant boost in stats when it received the merging forms. Imagine if one more legendary uber was smashed into it again.
4 - Don't remember saying it has hands. Those are underdeveloped claws/feet probably. Though looking at it's physique one can say it is a wreck.
5 - There are frozen chicken. But i am sure you knew that.
6 - I don't see feathers.

KyuremTheorem

May 8th, 2013, 08:03 AM

Let me clarify. It wouldn't have overpowered stats (lol stats is the same backwards). Nintendo is lazy and a group of retarded devolpers who boosted the stats un evenly. I mean, deoxys has one of its formes with the highest base stats, but lacks in other areas. However, the 2 new formes un unbalanced. They DOMINATE the psychical and special stats, yet keep kyurem's massive stats in its other areas. Nintendo is plain lazy. I mean arceus has 400+ stats at level 100. *prepares for anger* not a single one of mewtwo's stats (as of we know) reaches 370. I should know, I have a shiny flawless mewtwo (I sr'd for shiny but also got flawless!(u jelly). Get mad, but realize, I was pointless. It's just a game. Big whoop if I lose. Not like I'm gonna fail everything.

wraith89

May 9th, 2013, 06:43 AM

Eh this thread has been going on for a while, but I'll let it stay, as long as it contributes to anything lorewise.

Let me clarify. It wouldn't have overpowered stats (lol stats is the same backwards). Nintendo is lazy and a group of retarded devolpers who boosted the stats un evenly.

While 5th gen is riddled with stupid stat spreads and some unfair abilities (Haxorus/Reuniclus/Conkeldurr/etc much?), stats is not everything really. You can have all the attack in the world but if your speed falls behind or have a bad defensive typing, then that Pokemon can be tough to use competitively (Rampardos comes to mind). Also, Pokemon aren't meant to be equal, much like humans, so why bother? But everything does have a role, at least for most of the fully evolved Pokemon.

I mean, deoxys has one of its formes with the highest base stats, but lacks in other areas. However, the 2 new formes un unbalanced. They DOMINATE the psychical and special stats, yet keep kyurem's massive stats in its other areas.

Kyurem, being designed to be a very powerful legendary Pokemon, is quite strong but by no means broken. You would not play Kyurem in normal matches anyways because it was meant to be pit against other super legendaries like Mewtwo, Lugia, Ho-oh, and the likes. And it is not bad there. Kyurem's defensive typing means it hates common Fighting/Dragon/Rock attacks, and priority moves such as Bullet Punch or Mach Punch really hurt it. It's quite potent offensively, and Kyurem-W is one of the more threatening beasts out there and very hard to switch into, but it can still be handled. Deoxys is a bit of a gimmick where they took offensive stats and put them to the extremes, so it's an acceptable concept. And so is Kyurem, even if its BST is at 700, it's not like something over 720 wasn't done before (Arceus). Most of the other super legendaries before it, however, sat at 680 BST at maximum. It was odd regular Kyurem was at 660, so something had to be done. Also, a movepool also makes and breaks a Pokemon. Don't just look at their stats. Kyurem-B somewhat struggles because there is no reliable physical Ice STAB for it to abuse (although STAB Outrage coming from that thing is scary). Also you may have not noticed, but Kyurem-B has an extra 10 base Defence while Kyurem-W has an extra 10 base Special Defence. Though it is a significant boost from the regular Kyurem, it still left me a bit disappointed. I wish those extra stats went into Kyurem's speed so it can be at 105 base speed. Alas, no such thing occurred. All that attack means nothing if you cannot move first against some of the uglier threats.

Nintendo is plain lazy.

You are looking for Gamefreak, not Nintendo. Nintendo just publishes the game, if I am using the right word. But what makes you say that?

I mean arceus has 400+ stats at level 100. *prepares for anger* not a single one of mewtwo's stats (as of we know) reaches 370. I should know, I have a shiny flawless mewtwo (I sr'd for shiny but also got flawless!(u jelly).

Arceus has base 120 stats all over, meaning at neutral nature, that is 339 at maximum (and 372 at beneficial nature at max). You will not reach 400 anywhere, except HP. On the contrary, Mewtwo's highest stat is Special Attack at base 154, which allows 446 Special Attack (or was it 447?) at beneficial nature, and at 407 at neutral nature at maximum, which is well beyond 370. Mewtwo's speed is also no joke, sitting high at base 130, which is 359 at neutral nature and 394 at beneficial, which is still hovering in that range. Either your Mewtwo has a really low special attack IV (and a hindering nature) or you rare candied it all the way to 100 so it does not have the proper EVs. Pokemon's stats are just hex data, but I'm showing you Mewtwo has potential to reach those high number statistics. Also, I do prefer strawberry jam over grape jelly on my toast, thank you.

Mewtwo Ex

May 13th, 2013, 04:52 PM

On the contrary, Mewtwo's highest stat is Special Attack at base 154, which allows 446 Special Attack (or was it 447?)

447 is the current maximum for Mewtwo with max IV 31 and max EV 252. That is unless the new form sacrifices something for more power, since in Japanese anime - opening one's heart to kindness means godly power upgrade.

Also, I do prefer strawberry jam over grape jelly on my toast, thank you.

Made my day.

I wonder what will be the new thing that will break the pokemon universe in X & Y...